People are so mad that an AV might last 30m instead of 6m

Legit - how many av premades did you run in 1.12 v’s classic. I did all of my premading in wsg/ab and only ever ran av to get enough marks for the ‘for great honor’ turnins.

Sure - hosted my own premades using a quing addon in the cross realm era - because before that there was maybe 1 av game a day. No one played it.

I love long AV battles. It’s supposed to be an epic battle, not an epic fail.

blizzard didn’t do anything, they didn’t try to fix the faction balance, or discourage murder squads as ‘unfortunate behavior’, in fact they encouraged it with transfers, what they did do was release an activity that was already a thing. AV isn’t broken, it’s working as intended, and that’s the problem here, because as it is working it removes the horde pvp advantage.

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There is a singular win condition in AV: kill the enemy general.

Tell me again how leveling in the harpy cave is intended?

I don’t care about players in vanilla; I care about the game as it was in vanilla.

Stop confusing the two.

Its working as intended until the alliance didnt get their premade in the door and leave the q - forcing a 10v40 game


Actually, that’s a result of this being broken:

Doesn’t matter if a premade doesn’t get into the game. It’s supposed to fill afterwards with randoms. Problem is the game was starting before that happened.

The game as it actually was in vanilla did not involve premading av for 7 min wins that avoided any and all actual objective based pvp though. So here we are moving towards how the game actually was.


It allowed for that possibility, though. Just because players didn’t do that doesn’t change that fact.

Again, stop confusing the players and the game. They are different things.


No - there has never been any setting in vanilla stating a game has to only start after a threshold has been reached - the threshold was for the que to pop. The game has always started counting the same start timer since the first player has joined.

[Patch 1.8.0] (10-Oct-2005):

  • In order to keep teams in Alterac Valley more numerically balanced, players will now enter Alterac Valley on a one-for-one basis (i.e. if there are 30 players in the battleground for each side with 10 players in the Alliance queue and 2 players in the Horde queue, only two players from each team will be added, bringing the total to 32 per side).

As intended from patch 1.8
*The minimum number of players required to start a battle in Alterac Valley has been lowered to 20 (the maximum is still 40).

Note where it states enter - it says nothing about when players leave pausing the game.

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get a load of this gatekeeper

Because they never liked PvP.

Not this PvP, no. Classic is indellibly built on overpowering predation. This WHOLE game is a sensation machine where people go to extreme lengths to alleviate friction in their personal goals. As much as people delusionally say they enjoy PvP, it’s not because they like the act, but because doing it gets them to a state of power over others, so they can put in less effort over time. Very very analogous to real life.

I delude myself on a regular basis that I like to PvP in Classic, but until I’m Naxx-geared and have achieved my state of overpowered one-ness, I won’t be satisfied in doing it. Personally, I abhor PvP right now with every fabric of my being.

Quite a lot actually. Probably about half my matches were premades, half were pug.

True, you win from killing the general. That’s a bit myopic, however. Playing the map as intended grants plenty of rep and honor. Playing for objectives makes it easier to kill said general without a paladin doing a bubble pull. It’s also fun!

Hey, folks leveled in the harpy cave then, too. Killing any NPC in AV has always granted experience. And it’s always been good XP while you’re away from others.

No you don’t. You just appreciated that current conditions of the game granted the ability to exploit and you’re salty that it has been taken away.

I’ve been in guild-made premades in the past (2007 or 2008, if memory serves. It was post-Vanilla, but the BG was essentially the same.) There were a few differences then, however:

  • It was just guildies, from the same server (Shattered Hand.) We did not have cross-realm efforts
  • The queue time was about an hour for us to get into one. The queue strategy was the same, but the lack of instant queues made it very inefficient
  • We were not doing pally -pulls then. Instead, we had teams that would cap and defend, a back-capping team, and we’d also recall to defend, if needed. There were no “death balls,” either. In the end, matches typically took at least 30 minutes, and PvP did happen

You may not remember doing “pally-pulls” because early in TBC they became linked to their respective generals. Blizzard found the levels of guard-kiting to be unacceptable and fixed it.

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Oh look. Another QQ passive aggressive horde “Why won’t the Alliance play the game the way we want them to” thread


So completly different than how its being played in Classic.

Phase 2 will be a blip in time compared to how long we have to live with the state of BGs. Are people still going to be upset about phase 2 in a year from now?

People will be bringing up “phase-2” and why it means they deserve things long after Naxx is on farm.

And in a few years time when they are getting ganked at the black temple by hundreds of horde weilding thunderfury’s, we will have forum posts about how unfair p2 was and how horde is blizzards fav faction.

Imagine the tears at the realisation of facing off against a horde mace spec arms warrior with a paladin healer and how p2 was so unfair.