But they are entitled to that loot - they helped kill the boss, too. Everyone who helps kill the boss is entitled to roll on the loot it drops.
2 Likes
Seems like you’re looking for reasons to be angry and lash out at others. Maybe relax and take a step back.
So you’d need on an item to give it to your friend even if you didn’t need it? IF you’re okay with this then you’re part of the toxic problem, if you’d do it, you’re even more of a rat. It’s called the “Need” button for a reason.
This literally cannot happen…you cannot need on cross armor archetypes. You can greed. But if the hunter rolled Need his roll goes above the priests greed roll.
Nice try though.
No theyre not. They didnt win the roll. They wouldnt have won regardless, meaning they never would have gotten it in the first place. At least people passing items onto their friends are making gear they dont need useful.
1 Like
/thread lol
I hope you have the day that you deserve.
When people started most often determines what people think of this. Anyone who started before personal loot came in have been ingrained with the idea you only need on stuff that is an upgrade for you. Everything else is greed. People who started when personal loot happened or after think it is my loot.
Neither side is going to convince the other they are wrong. Blizzard does need to fix this though because it is causing people to stop doing group play.
1 Like
There are two mail classes that can play healers and I noticed I did type priest it wasn’t a priest it was one of those ugly dragon things.
Nuh uh, I’m an upie!
2 Likes
You keep changing your basic definition here, but it changes nothing.
You just don’t like their reason for needing. You also assume they gave it to a friend. I assume it’s often for transmog purposes that they need on a piece that is not an upgrade. Or maybe they needed on it for disenchanting. Regardless of the need reason, the game allowed them to roll need, so they can. They are entitled to roll on the loot because they helped kill the boss.
Curious how much the OP donates to charity every pay day?
Pays his bills, buys his groceries, sets aside some money for gas and gives the rest to charity because they need it more than him right?
So selfish hes ninja’ing all that cash he worked for to pay for his wow subscription.
Tsk tsk
1 Like
This is PUG life. The end.
4 Likes
People aren’t fine with being screwed over, but it is also worth noting in case that this is a good faith post that everyone’s definition of what is fine and what isn’t is different. In a normal pug you are playing with completely random people so there is no baseline except for what the game itself allows people to do.
But…! It is also worthwhile to note everything from people’s desire to get loot for other specializations having their specialization set to a different one that the one they are currently playing as. Or they might want one particular item for one specialization or the other and thus’ change back and forth, etc.
Unless there is a stated baseline prior to joining the PUG and loot is distributed via that baseline, there is no such baseline. Otherwise…
Honestly, pugs aren’t bad as long as one doesn’t have weird fantastical takes like OP has about it.
3 Likes
You have absolutely no way to prove this. I started playing WoW in the closed beta of vanilla back in the spring of 2004. Personal loot was not even a fleeting thought of mine as a possible way to dole out items. And I firmly believe that if you helped kill the boss and the system allows you to need, you have just as much of a right to need on that roll as anyone else. Another player doesn’t get priority because they have less gear on their character.
But your argument here also completely leaves out two major differences between group loot today and loot systems of the past. First, transmog didn’t exist for the majority of WoW’s existence prior to the introduction of personal loot. The only use cases for a BoP item were to be worn, vendored, or disenchanted. It’s much easier to define what constitutes need versus greed when the options are either use for performance or gold/item that can be traded for gold.
Second, BoP items couldn’t be traded prior to personal loot. If you won an item, short of putting in a ticket to a GM who may or may not help, there was no way for anyone else to get that item. The culture behind rolling for someone else or wanting to take an item to turn around to sell simply wasn’t allowed by the system itself. If you pressed a need button (or general roll before need before greed was added), there was no way for you to turn that item into anything more than something you wear, sell, or disenchant.
1 Like
I have been doing a survey in these threads and that has been my observation. It makes sense as well if you actually played a lot in group content when people were really strict about people needing on gear for greedy purposes.
I did say most often - just because you are exception doesn’t disprove that. I do wonder how you managed to survive for years when people like you would be shunned and calling ninja’s in classic and then just kicked out of raids and groups for needing for greedy purposes.
1 Like
He never said he rolled need on things he didn’t need. He simply explained the way loot works. Explaining how something works is not saying you engage with it that way. I only roll need on things that I actually need as a player power upgrade, but I still think anyone who participated in the fight is eligible to roll for whatever reason or use.
Btw, for your super scientific survey, I started in vanilla.
4 Likes
skill issue. roll better.
I’d be interested in seeing those results, but also recognize there are about a half dozen biases I could point to that would likely skew the results.
Didn’t you just say the opposite though? That I should be appalled by the notion that someone might misuse need in the current loot system because I learned WoW through the lens that people who took loot for greedy reasons would be outcast as pariahs?
You’re right, it doesn’t. But the burden of proof for your claim is on you to prove it. Me giving my experience in the complete absence of you providing any kind of verification doesn’t prove I’m the exception to the rule, you have to prove the rule first.
And there’s the baseless accusation and projection… that didn’t take long.
At no point did I say I was rolling need for greedy purposes, I actually only use that button on something that could be an upgrade for me to use. There are times in DF where I will roll need on an item that might be an upgrade since a sim will take longer than I have to roll, but if it turns out to be worse I’ll trade it to the next highest roller (and no, I don’t try to charge them for it). I do not condone people rolling need on items solely to try to make a profit.
But the heart of this discussion, that these posts usually (if not always) fail to consider, is that whatever system that exists in the game cannot handle just the narrow use case you construct in your mind. It has to consider players coming from different perspectives and have different goals. The term “need” has different meanings to different people; comparisons to need prior to transmog and BoP trading within instances are lacking important considerations at best and disingenuous at worst.
When any item you get provides no utility beyond the money you can sell it for once you are not going to wear anymore, it’s much easier to define what “need” exists in that context. It’s much harder to do so when there are 2 other valid use cases to which the definition need could be applied. Trying to argue that your definition of need is more correct than another person’s definition of need relies on you holding more authority on the subject than them, which you do not. If someone wants to call transmog a need, neither you nor I have any leg to definitively tell them they are wrong.
An unfortunate side effect of this is that there’s no realistic way to model a system that will allow for all valid use cases without allowing in some of the bad. There’s no way for the system to know whether the person rolling need on an item is doing so in good faith or not. And despite your assertions to the contrary, no player gets to decide what constitutes another player’s good faith roll.
So to summarize, no I do not support players rolling need for items they fully intend to flip for profit, I wish those players would use greed. I wish the transmog button allowed players to roll only against other transmog rollers just for the appearance to take them out of the need roll pool. I just realize that no player has the authority to dictate how other players should define need and there doesn’t exist a way to model a loot system that prevents all bad while allowing the valid use cases.
If you don’t like the way pugs operate then stop being a pug and find an actual raid team to play with. I have no sympathy for pugs.
Lol when OP runs from his own thread
1 Like
You know. Insects actually are a part of many cultural diets. And they should be looked at as a food source. They are rich in protein and vitamins. They are very healthy to eat. They do not require a lot of resources to grow like livestock. And they can be rapidly produced. The issue is finding a way to farm them in the volumes needed to feed a population.