How on earth does it make sense that someone should get a 15 minute penalty when kicked from a dungeon party? Especially when all 4 other players are from the same realm. Shouldn’t the game have a way to detect this?
Its bad enough this group was able to abuse the kick mechanic by kicking me for no reason in the first place, but to then give me a penalty for it?
This is totally unacceptable. I’ve submitted for a refund for my Shadowlands Prepurchase and recent resub.
Basicly before the deserter debuff tanks healers and dps would held the group hostage if they didnt do what the they wanted by blizzard had to step in and give penalties for insubordinate players that didnt want to play nice. GL on the refund depending on how long it was since u purchased it and if u used the boost it may not happen. By the way this has been around since WOD>
Darth is correct. The system doesn’t know or care why you left, only that you did. It isn’t a perfect system, but it has been gamed every time it was reworked (one state of it, people would just unplug their connection if they simply got a dungeon they didn’t want, for example) which leads to the version we have now where everyone is treated the same.
That is ridiculous rational. I had another dungeon party prior to this where the tank voluntarily left and we had a replacement in less than 3 minutes. I’m pretty sure the prospect of an innocent player being colluded against by a 3 or 4 man group is the much worse result.
Sorry, but that’s quite an over-reaction don’t you think?
The deserter debuff has been around for years.
But the system doesn’t know you’re innocent. You are essentially filling the same shoes that were once on the feet of a tank or healer that didn’t like the dungeon they were dropped in and would simply sit their butt down and not do squat until they were removed for someone else.
They did not get the debuff when they were kicked and were free to queue again with no consequence. As I said, it isn’t perfect. But it is the fairest it can be.
Returning to the no-debuff-for-majority-removal days will only bring us back to the hostage holding days.
I think you missed my point. I’m saying the burden on the party to quickly find a replacement is not the same as a POTENTIAL innocent player being penalized for a situation where they are already getting screwed over. As I said, a group only hours prior to this we had a replacement TANK through the group finder in under 3 minutes.
Or how about a way for the game to at least know that the “majority” is part of the same party outside of the dungeon.
If you have any feedback, then you can leave it in the Dungeons and Raids Forum for the developers to review.
But if I were you, I wouldn’t hold my breath. As stated above, the debuff has evolved over the years, and you are talking about returning it to an earlier state where it was FAR worse than it is today.
It already does that. If everyone joins individually, then it’s 3 votes needed. If 3 join as a party, then the vote needs four to succeed. If four join as a party, then there’s not much the system can do. It’s always majority rules.
So if it already knows its a 3 or 4 person group wouldn’t it be acceptable to make it so the person getting kicked doesn’t get the debuff? Don’t you think this significantly raises the chances of the kick being malicious? I would think this change should be easy if its already able to tell its a group.
If its a group of individual queues then Yes I totally get why the debuff would be applied.
I know nothing is going to come of it. I’m just trying to poke a hole in this stupid logic.
I look at this as the same way I look at the mass reporting thing to try to get someone banned by the automation. Like how Classic players did if they found out who the Scarb Lord was in an enemy guild. Those players had action taken against their account. How is this any different?
Those far more invested in the situation than you or I have already pondered the logic nine ways from Sunday.
The current system is helping the most people, with the fewest side-effects.
Probably will never happen. Because, as stated above:
You’re not really poking any holes here. I understand your point, and why you are frustrated, but the system used to work the way you wanted it, and it was HIGHLY abused.
If you have a better suggestion as to a new way it can work, you should share it in the D&R Forum. But your current feedback is not a new way, by far.
Quite frankly, I’m not sure how far you had to stretch to make such a connection. They are completely different systems.
Reporting someone for spam when they are not is a way of abusing the tools Blizzard gave us. Kicking someone from a dungeon is not abuse, because no one is forced to play with someone they don’t want to. They don’t need any kind of reason to use the Vote to Kick feature.
I disagree. There is little difference other than the number of players involved. Its collusion against an another player that did nothing wrong.
Kicking someone from a dungeon party for nothing is abusing the provided tool. Especially when you consider the player being kicked had no control of the players they were paired with.
People aren’t saying this is a great situation. People are saying this is the least worst (ergo: best) system implementation thus far. It had been tweaked and adjusted many, many times to get to this point.
We understand it’s frustrating. We understand it’s not fair.
Blizzard’s always looking for concrete suggestions to improve the game.
It’s not collusion, because again, a group of 4 players doesn’t NEED a reason. They can kick you because they don’t like that your character name starts with the letter J, or the realm you come from, etc.
Doing something “wrong”, besides being very subjective, is not necessary for a group to vote to kick you.
It is not. Continuing to insist on it does not make it true.
Who decides what is “nothing”? Do you decide that? Does Blizzard? A third-party, perhaps? Where is that line drawn, and by whom? What if you disagree with the final decision on what “nothing” actually is?
If I want to go fast, and you are slow, is that “nothing”? Is me making honest mistakes “something” or “nothing”?
There is absolutely, positively no way to micro-manage dungeon kicks. It would take a half hour per kick just to interview those involved and arbitrate a decision, over whether the reason was valid.
To you it’s “nothing.” To someone else it’s “something.”
As I said before, this system allows for the most effective method of removing problem players, with the fewest side-effects for innocent people.
I am sorry you were one of those innocent people. It’s the risk we take when we queue up.
I’m sorry you had a bad experience, Jenaragu. I’ve had a few of them myself. Ultimately, my solution was to boycott pugging for about a decade. These days I’m willing to have one or two.
Content is much more fun with friends anyhow.
Seems to me the easiest solution would be for Blizzard to implement a change where it recognizing the vote kick is coming from a group outside the dungeon. In this case the 15 minute debuff should not be applied. Someone already mentioned that the game already knows you are a group based off the requirements for the kick.
As I said, the debuff makes total sense if the vote kick came from a group of randoms.
That sounds reasonable to me. Perhaps the kick succeeds (in cases where you have a very toxic pick-up) but as you said, the debuff isn’t incurred (or is limited). Or, maybe it can be stacking - if you get booted fairly frequently, you start seeing other negative effects.
I suggest posting in the Dungeons forum, and perhaps the General forum. Daylight hours may be best. The Community Managers for those communities don’t reply, but do collect constructive feedback for the design team.
Then you slide right back into the situation where a tank sees 3 people from the same realm/guild/etc, and now they know they can hold the group hostage with no debuff.
It’s causing more problems than it solves.