You’re taking the “win” part of P2W too literally.
it’s really “pay to have fun” but that doesn’t sound as catchy.
If the choice is go through a slow boring 10 hour grind to reach “the good part” you could insstead get to instantly with a $25 purchase, then the guy that spends that $25 is “winning” by being allowed to have more fun.
Of course, in competitive games the “win” is literal, you buy items/stats/lives/whatever to win.
Ever consider you are the one on the couch, not in the audience?
Yeah, this is exactly right. People spend real money to bypass, and that’s a huge part of P2W.
No, because unlike you guys I actually know what I’m talking about. I’ve done more research than “uhh, I think it isn’t P2W.”
No one is arguing against this, we know it’s bad but you have to factor in the people that spend most of their time working and taking care of their families, everyone has equal rights to parts of the game that you deem they shouldn’t have access to. I personally don’t have time to farm gold, I spend $20 every now and then when I need a boost to my gold to keep going with repairs, food buffs and the like.
Cosmetics, mounts, pets, titles and achievements are literally worthless in the grand scheme of things, yes you can get AOTC for half a mil gold (dunno the rates these days) but AOTC is worthless and the only reason why anyone would ever pay to get it is to have a link for pathetic people who demand an AOTC link for trivial difficulty mythics or trivial difficulty raids.
You have your own skewed definition that you are forcing on everyone else.
Doesn’t show you know what you are talking about at all, shows the opposite actually.
They would have the exact same access to attempting the content as anyone else. If they can’t beat it, it’s not the game’s fault some some player’s aren’t good enough to complete the higher difficulties. Those are supposed to be hard.
But you can put in the time and effort required to improve both your character and your gameplay until you can. Some players just choose to pay gold to shortcut that, either because they are unwilling to put in the required effort, or because they are unable to play nice with others.
I what now? I don’t think you understood my point at all. Which, for this discussion seems to be the norm.
This is how you feel, this is not how other people feel. Other people value these things, and some of them are very willing to spend real world money to get them.
True, it isn’t the games fault, but that doesn’t mean people won’t just spend money to bypass those difficulty ratings.
You’re against people that have limited time, by simple logic by arguing that someone wants a few carries for some gear that will help them get into groups that require a higher ilvl.
Most people will tell you that the people who spend real world money to get any of this are the ones who suffer from FOMO, the same people who told you that those who suffer from FOMO, simply do not care if you have a mount that they don’t, for instance I want invincible, you probably have it, do I care that you have it? No not really, most people won’t because it doesn’t affect them in any capacity.
Seeing as Pay to win means you’re able to buy player power with real money… and you can’t do that in WoW people that claim WoW is such are trolling. Just because you can buy a token and with it gain gold does not equal player power, most of the best things in the game you’ve gotta actually work for.
Isn’t the concept of P2W purely a subjective one? I mean, I’m sure everyone has their own definition of what it is…
Pay to win has a proper definition and that definition is largely accepted by the majority of players, that definition involves having a paid advantage over others and the source of this is from the MANY MANY games that allow people to literally buy items and equipment that are statistically superior to anything you can get in the game through normal play.
We aren’t denying that buying gear runs is pay to win, but in the broad sense of a PvE game which WoW is predominately PvE, buying gear does NOT translate into any actual advantage over other players when you can’t kill them through normal means, not unless you toggle war mode, enter an arena or BG or enter a duel, but you won’t PvP in PvE gear if you were smart about it.
Now if the game was predominately PvP, buying gear runs WOULD by every definition of P2W would be P2W, no matter how you slice it or word it.
Pretty much. But majority agree on the ‘win’ aspect and what it means. Unfair advantage. Usually unobtainable by means of just playing.
The outliers are the ones that try to tack on to what winning can mean. And it usually involves their negative feelings on things such as the wow token. Which they are usually aren’t shy about expressing their aversion to.
People can do what ever they want. I’m still going to label it for what it is, and that’s P2W. You’re just making assumptions at this point.
Yes, and how does having a paid advantage not include gearing faster, having more resources, clearing harder content, gaining semi-exclusive mounts, titles, pets and transmogs?
Again, you people need to do more research on this.
yeppers
ding ding ding
But in order for that to be possible, you have to find someone who’s cleared the higher difficult content without paying someone else to do it.
Ergo, you can only use told to catch up to the people who are already ahead of you, you can’t surpass them.
Why does this matter, exactly?
So, we’re adding another caveat to P2W, that it’s only if you gain max level gear and only if you aren’t the first person to acquire said gear… any more additions we’d like to add to the list?
You’re skirting half the equation here, you aren’t telling me how this gives people an advantage over other players. How does say me buying a full set of 556 mythic raid gear, give me an advantage over another player who has 343 ilvl? What about this beyond PvP metrics gives me an advantage?
Who decided what pay to win is though? I’ve googled and found multiple definitions. I don’t think there is a set definition for P2W.
Then we go into what is fair and not fair which is also subjective, for example I don’t care that people use gold they purchased with cash to buy anything and everything… I see it as fair because I have the same access to everything they’re paying for without dropping a dime.
I fill there could be 500 different discussions and we’d all have 50+ different views on what is and isn’t.
Because, in order for the game to truly be pay to win, paying money would have to make your goals noticeably easier, without the involvement of other players, in a way that could not otherwise be obtained in game without paying.
Is this a serious question?
The best part about this is, you people can’t even agree with each other… you just know that you don’t agree with me.