@ Paladins

Some one should voice over the clip with “The Light” when ever they say God just for use in paladin related topics.

Interesting little factoid. It’s intended to be the same thing but because Blizzard doesn’t want to support any single diety.

If you look at the original Beta it’s very evident by the spell took tips.

I don’t think that’s a reasonable assertion.

The Holy Light is a defined fantasy religion. Yes, it has a lot of similarity to real-world Judeo-Christian beliefs, but that’s not the same as saying that it’s intended as a stand-in for them. It has similarities, and it also has differences.

It’s just a cultural artifact that the Judeo-Christian mythos dominates Western religious thought, and so it’s common and expected that the writers (unconsciously or consciously) would draw inspiration from it.

You ought to have a look at the BETA combat res took tip.

It’s rather specific. Obviously they changed this in 1.1.0 with a lot of the game, but it’s the genesis of the class.


I don’t think a single tooltip typed out by a single person, in beta, on a single class, typed a long time after the Holy Light was already designed, is a good representation of design intent.

It’s about a 700% chance that that was just a Freudian slip by an overworked employee who had to bang out some tooltips on a deadline.

(Also, I feel it’s worth noting that that doesn’t reference any specific religion anyway, and trying to map it to a specific religion is projection at best.)

I never said that it was a reference to any specific religion, just that the light and God are suppose to be the same thing. And that’s why the little video posted by Theloras is more or less in tune with the class fantasy…

Ewww I just used Class fantasy… I feel dirty now, someone get me some bleach…

So I like to go Holy/Ret personally. What I do is go Ret down to SOC And Pursuit of Justice which is only a 13 point investment. From there I go all Holy and become a healing goddess in dungeons. Run BOW and SOL while questing and typically have no downtime.

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That’s actually how I was thinking to build… I cant see the point in going any deeper into Retribution than Seal of Command for leveling… All the rest seems like PVE / PVP raid / dungeon options that I really don’t need for Healing in a dungeon.

Seal of Command looks fun, primarily why I would like to use it… Also the burst (According to the math) indicates that Judgement of Command is king when you don’t have gear.

This also still gives us access to all the other seals,… but I could be wrong.

When you use the word capital-g God, you’re referring to a specific religion or group of religions.

The video Theloras posted is associated with a specific religion.

Paladins are not associated with a specific religion and, indeed, the Holy Light is not an omnipotent creator deity.

Interesting, did not know that bit… Is that a religious thing?

I mean…yeah?

It’s a Judeo-Christian thing. Capital-G God, as a name, is how modern Christians refer to their deity. It can be traced back to the Judeaic conceit of “Do not take the Lord’s name in vain” that you still see in the Bible today.

(Islam, though derived from the same roots, did not keep this prohibition; if you just listen to the words, you might notice some similarities between Allah and Yahweh.)

In any case, it refers specifically to the creator deity of Abrahamic religions. Contrast with usages like Zeus or Vishna, deities from polytheistic religions that have their own names, or for a more Warcraft example consider Elune, an actual deity who is also always referred to with her own name.

Speaking of WoW’s stuff, it’s kinda funky how they blended all their stuff together… Some of it is kidna disjointed in a way if you go with the modern WoW interpretation of the lore.

Shame that the lore is so wack, because it’s plastered full of bandaid fixes for massive plot holes.

The modern interpretation especially suffers from that.

The original WoW lore only had to worry about plot holes from the Warcraft RTS games, and there wasn’t a lot of plot in Warcraft 1 or 2, and War3 was recent enough that they didn’t have a ton of problem working with it.

But the longer they went the bigger their pile of existing lore was and they…did not do a good job maintaining it. Even as early as BC, Outland looked nothing like Draenor did in Beyond the Dark Portal. (I guess at least Zangarmarsh had the giant mushrooms, but my recollection of BtDP is that the mushrooms were reddish to go with the land.)

As I remember it the Mushrooms in the WC RTS were also in dry areas as well… We harvested them instead of trees…

(talking WC2 Beyond the dark portal) That’s been 23+ years so… take that memory with a grain of salt…

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Plus the Black Temple used to be the Black Citadel and was in Hellfire Peninsula.

There was also something called Fortress Shadowmoon where Black Temple is now, but it doesn’t fully line up with being the Black Temple.

Outland is a strange place.

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Hunters are hardly pvp gods. A gank is a gank, any class can do it.

I leveled a retribution paladin to 60 on a pvp server. A paladin + hunter is totally at the convenience of the hunter, as he doesn’t have a need for a paladin. Hunters who properly manage their resources (pet health, cooldowns, and mana) while farming don’t need the tiny convenience of an aura and a buff that is about as good as food. Period. The hunter would have to slow down to accommodate a low dps buff bot jogging after him.

But a warlock would definitely decrease down time and increase dps with a paladin as their strengths and weaknesses play off each other, increasing mob control and xp per minute for both players while making the prospect of world pvp from a ganker nearly zero from the fearbombs, dots and heal combo.

If we really want to get technical…

In order to preform a proper “GANK” you need a GANG of players to KILL another player, hence the term GANG KILLING, that was shortened to “GANK”, This is the origin of the word.

In short, no single class can “GANK” another player by it self.

As for hunters, sorry man; we’re the PVP gods of Vanilla, it’s not even remotely fair how much an advantage we actually have vs other classes. If you knew you would not be saying this… OR maybe you do and you’re trying to keep the population of hunters down though disinformation…

You snake!


FYI everyone - Kevin Jordan Speaks!!! Paladins and Hunters etc https://www.twitch.tv/countdowntoclassic

i’ll be in on the interview with the original Vanilla WoW class/spec designer for all classes

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Awesome!! Ask about the seal and judgement spell coefficients and different rank judgement stacks via different paladin.

Also ask about why crusader strike and holy strike system was replaced.