Paladins, both Retribution and Protection

[Galbados-twisting-nether]

As for this. Just because you can clear end game trash packs and kill dungeon bosses in raid gear, does not make you a tank. Attempting to appeal to the fact you can simply generate more threat on multiple targets while requiring an excess of healing because you lack a form of proper mitigation is not tanking.

It’s called being a meat shield.

Actually, yeah, that is tanking. Acquire threat, keep threat, soak damage. That’s tanking. Infact back then tanks would Stam Stack to be a better damage soak. If an item gave you more stam at the expense of avoidance (parry / dodge), you took it.

Meat shield is just another name for a tank. Automobile, car…same thing.

[Nermal-echo-isles (Nermal)]

As for this. Just because you can clear end game trash packs and kill dungeon bosses in raid gear, does not make you a tank. Attempting to appeal to the fact you can simply generate more threat on multiple targets while requiring an excess of healing because you lack a form of proper mitigation is not tanking.

It’s called being a meat shield.

Actually, yeah, that is tanking. Acquire threat, keep threat, soak damage. That’s tanking. Infact back then tanks would Stam Stack to be a better damage soak. If an item gave you more stam at the expense of avoidance (parry / dodge), you took it.

Meat shield is just another name for a tank. Automobile, car…same thing.

Vanilla Paladins feel more like an active mitigation tank. Activated block via Holy Shield points me in that direction.

I honestly believe in the FACT that Paladins are not Warriors and should not be played like one (meaning zero healing because you’re the tank). You’re kind of expected to throw a Flash of Light on yourself instead of being “unhittable.”

The tradeoff for having heals as a Paladin is that you are expected to throw a heal on yourself and that’s why I take Spiritual Focus on my way to Consecration.

And you’re right about MOAR STAMINA!

[Arrghus-darkspear]

I played Ret/Prot in Vanilla (mainly Ret). I never had any issues.

[Galbados-twisting-nether]

As for this. Just because you can clear end game trash packs and kill dungeon bosses in raid gear, does not make you a tank. Attempting to appeal to the fact you can simply generate more threat on multiple targets while requiring an excess of healing because you lack a form of proper mitigation is not tanking.

It’s called being a meat shield.

Actually, yeah, that is tanking. Acquire threat, keep threat, soak damage. That’s tanking. Infact back then tanks would Stam Stack to be a better damage soak. If an item gave you more stam at the expense of avoidance (parry / dodge), you took it.

Meat shield is just another name for a tank. Automobile, car…same thing.

Vanilla Paladins feel more like an active mitigation tank. Activated block via Holy Shield points me in that direction.

I honestly believe in the FACT that Paladins are not Warriors and should not be played like one (meaning zero healing because you’re the tank). You’re kind of expected to throw a Flash of Light on yourself instead of being “unhittable.”

The tradeoff for having heals as a Paladin is that you are expected to throw a heal on yourself and that’s why I take Spiritual Focus on my way to Consecration.

And you’re right about MOAR STAMINA!

The one problem with casting while being whomped on is that you can be crushed while doing so. The other problem is that Prot Paladins were already strapped for mana in long encounters. Put both together and its not an ideal situation to ask the Paladin to heal themselves.

[Swani-arathor (Swani)]

The other problem is that Prot Paladins were already strapped for mana in long encounters.

Depends.

https://classicdb.ch/?item=22194
+
https://wowwiki.fandom.com/wiki/Reckoning_(old)

[Galbados-twisting-nether]

Reckoning procs off being crit in 1.12. If it were from blocks then yeah, it’d be a far more reliable source of mana matched with those gloves.

[Swani-arathor (Swani)]

Reckoning procs off being crit in 1.12.

Ahhh, curses, you’re right. Dunno why I still thought of just being hit would trigger it. Think I am mixing up TBC and vanilla memories here

[Williams-akama (Williams)]

Curiosity here… but if SoR works like you guys say it does and you can double your chance on proc items and double your chance on proc debuffs / seals then would not Judgement of light on a target or Judgement of Wisdom on a Target in addition to Sea of Righteousness be a massive gain in overall effect?

Is the healing provided by Judgement of Light considered the paladin’s healing? If so does that work for him in regard to threat generation?? Or is that calculated per player on their end?

Also another curiosity is Blessing of Sanctuary, this works in tandem with Holy shield and Redbout, but if you ran Retribution Aura or had another paladin with Retribution aura in the group, does that also contribute to threat? I would assume it does.

Couple that with even the lowest rank of Consecrated ground and it would make good sense on how they’re so flipping good at AE threat.

[Nermal-echo-isles (Nermal)]

Judgement of light on a target or Judgement of Wisdom on a Target in addition to Sea of Righteousness be a massive gain in overall effect?

Yes SoR works in that way. If you judge light, it allows for SoR’s threat on top of Judgment of Light healing up to two times.

Is the healing provided by Judgement of Light considered the paladin’s healing? If so does that work for him in regard to threat generation?? Or is that calculated per player on their end?

It is registered threat-wise on the Paladin. It goes in as healing threat, but with a built-in threat reduction.

Also another curiosity is Blessing of Sanctuary, this works in tandem with Holy shield and Redbout, but if you ran Retribution Aura or had another paladin with Retribution aura in the group, does that also contribute to threat? I would assume it does.

Every hit reflects Ret Aura damage back to the mob. Every block reflects Holy Shield, BoSanctuary, and Ret Aura damage. All of that is registered threat-wise to the Paladin.

If a Warrior has both Ret Aura and Sanc, the same rules apply. Threat is registered on the Warrior, but they will never have Holy Shield damage (self buff).

[Williams-akama (Williams)]

So having a Retribution paladin is actually handy, so now I am curious just how much TPS can be gained by retribution aura… Does the improved ret aura talent actually improve it much??

Then temper that with Sanc aura…

Does Judgement of the Crusader improve the damage of Retribution aura? o.O???

I MUST KNOW THESE THINGS!!! TELL ME!

[Zeliek-moon-guard (Zeliek)]

Retribution aura is reflective damage so it doesn’t increase in damage except with the imp ret aura talent. That said, it will proc off any hit/block. Misses, dodges, and parries will not proc it. Ret auras threat is applied to the one being hit so righteous fury only works on the paladin being hit.

[Williams-akama (Williams)]

Ok, that’s sensible… Does it increase with Sanc aura?

Say for example you have 2 paladin in the group, and one is running Retribution aura, and the other is using Sanc aura…

Would that improve the damage of Retribution aura? Would it also improve the damage if Judgement of the Crusader is also on the target?

[Sereña-thrall]

As stated previously:

[Nermal-echo-isles (Nermal)]

Ok, that’s sensible… Does it increase with Sanc aura?

Say for example you have 2 paladin in the group, and one is running Retribution aura, and the other is using Sanc aura…

Would that improve the damage of Retribution aura? Would it also improve the damage if Judgement of the Crusader is also on the target?

Yes to all. Anything that increases Holy Damage will impact pretty much all Paladin abilities including Ret Aura, Holy Shield damage, Sanc damage, etc. What it won’t do is increase chance to block or things like that.

[Williams-akama (Williams)]

OK that’s actually really cool.

[Zeliek-moon-guard (Zeliek)]

Ok, that’s sensible… Does it increase with Sanc aura?

Say for example you have 2 paladin in the group, and one is running Retribution aura, and the other is using Sanc aura…

Would that improve the damage of Retribution aura? Would it also improve the damage if Judgement of the Crusader is also on the target?

Yes to all. Anything that increases Holy Damage will impact pretty much all Paladin abilities including Ret Aura, Holy Shield damage, Sanc damage, etc. What it won’t do is increase chance to block or things like that.

OK that’s actually really cool.

Sanctity aura will not affect retribution aura as it is reflection damage. Same goes for Nightfall.

[Nermal-echo-isles (Nermal)]

I always thought it did. OOPS on me.

[Williams-akama (Williams)]

Ok, so retribution aura simply does not scale at all then?

[Nermal-echo-isles (Nermal)]

Apparently not. But as a Paladin tank, you’re actively looking for a hit or a much better block, since either procs Ret Aura.

It doesn’t mean Paladins don’t want avoidance stats, but they are few and far between that would truly benefit a Paladin.

[Zeliek-moon-guard (Zeliek)]

Ok, so retribution aura simply does not scale at all then?

Nope. Paladin is sorely lacking in the scaling department.

Prot paladin wants defense to soft cap>stamina>parry>dodge/agility/defense. Your threat stats are spell damage>block>int>ap.

Obviously this is just in general.