I mean… this wasn’t really a thing in vanilla, so the only place that players can test it is a private server right now. We’ll have to wait and see if it’ll work in Classic, but I hope it does. It’s a neat build that should absolutely be tested.
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O it definitely was a thing in vanilla, that is why we have the stereotypes. Also even if that is true, testing on a private server is not a valid data set. If I used that type of modeling in my job I would of been fired a hundred times over. Not only that but simply admitting to owning an illegal version of the game, is very illegal.
The hybrids are fun to look at, however it does not change the fact they require a niche to be useful and a large portion of guilds will not cater to multiple rets, if any at all in some classes. To preach they are viable in any metric outside of the top 1% of wrong and disrespectful to the player base who have dreams.
I don’t really remember ever seeing a paladin build in this way. Most of them just stuck with the AP build - y’know, going strength and trying it that way. Shockadin was a thing (not sure if it was in vanilla though) but that isn’t what this is either.
It’s 15 years after vanilla, we can afford to be less than optimal. Warm bodies have always been more valuable than top tier specs. We really won’t need to be playing the best specs to clear content.
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I definitely saw a few try it maybe half a dozen on my server, in fact one of them on Spirestone-US became one of the most feared Grand Marshals to walk the server. All bowed to him. He however did not raid in that type of capacity.
Due to how the raid actually works with respect to all roles, dps were expected to pull a minimum. While no MC and ZG had such low requirements of course a paladin could do those as ret they just would bottom of everything outside of healing. The point is a majority of the playerbase would not be able to min/max most things correctly let alone a paladin if we are simply being realistic.
We didn’t have the time, experience, or tools to try out this spec back then. I highly doubt there was anyone running with the MCP, but if they were, they were definitely ahead of their time. It’s the same with Ferals and the same weapon, if not the helm as well. This time around I think they’ll be decent enough that if the person themselves is valued, the spec doesn’t really matter.
I know I don’t really see a problem with it. I’m also planning to play a hunter which, while better damage wise, also falls off hard. But it’s still a very useful class and can bring its own.
Well no one is saying they can not be useful, our entire premise is that if a guild does not need you, you have no real purpose. Also there was actually quiet a lot of theory crafters from the vanilla era that were seriously way to ahead of their time. The issue was that since it was the dawn of that era we didn’t have the tools readily available knowledge to obtain them.
The problem is A LOT of people will level a paladin with this dream only to find out a harsh reality. No one here is saying do not play paladin just do not have these dreams of greatness without serious over the top work and still have a low chance to succeed.
For the extra healing and mana. One of the benefits of bringing paladins were the Judgments and the Blessings.
The benefit of being Holy (and picking the right talents) is that Judgment lasts longer so on fights where you have to be out of melee range requires you to move into melee less often.
The other good reason for paladins to be in melee in Seal of Wisdom to restore their mana. Any fight where they can safely melee, they should.
You don’t need resistance auras for every fight, and on the fights where you do, the hitboxes of the bosses are big enough that you can melee and still provide the aura to the ranged.
Priests and shamans made better tank healers, actually, due to their talents providng armor buffs on crits.
Also, they do quite a lot of healing with Judgment of Light, which is one reason to use it.
These seem more like questions appropriate in a thread about HOLY Paladins rather than Ret or Prot. I don’t undersetand why you’ve derailed your own thread.
Well, there’s one reason right there. Less threat in melee range. Unless you mean an additional 10% threat? I actually don’t know.
Dude, if you’re being meleed, you’ve got problems. You don’t go into melee to have a “small possibility to block, dodge, or parry any melee attack.” You go into melee because paladins have more mana sustain in melee.
Knockback is rare enough that it shouldn’t cause any issues, and most knockback will be predictable. Besides, if you’re so behind on healing that someone dies because of knockback, you were failing at your job in the first place.
Cleave won’t hit EVERY melee, so that’s not a concern, and if the boss’s AoE was significant enough, you wouldn’t go into melee. That’s what I said.
There isn’t any fault in that.
As far as I know, you can only have one Judgment per paladin, so you’d need two rets.
Exactly. That’s what makes its existence on private servers suspect. That’s not to say it’s necessarily wrong, per se, but that there’s no way to verify the authenticity of it.
It’s not illegal as long as you own the game, which everyone here that has an account does. What is illegal is the operation and proliferation of a server with stolen code and copyright infringing mimicked content. If you just play on them it isn’t illegal. Youtubing the content will get you a takedown. If you create your own server with your own content that makes use of owned client data, it is not illegal as you own the intellectual rights to the server as blizzard didn’t create it. General rule of thumb, what you own is yours. Just make sure you aren’t leasing like american farmers that are getting boned by tractor suppliers which increases the price we pay by a significant margin.
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There was one on my server, all horde mages lived in fear of him… I know because there were several forum posts about it asking for “Ways” to defeat the guy as a mage…
Verdict was something to the effect “It’s impossible he’s god”.
It’s my opinion that was more a player skill thing, in that he was a really good player and they were average to darn decent, but not “Great”. Spell damage paladin builds have been around since Vanilla, they just were less known than the typical STR build retribution paladin.
I am learning quickly that the server I played on was not typical in any way, the player base in my opinion was better than the average, more along the lines of what the private servers demonstrate. Also the population was horde bias as a PVP server, and the Q’s for BG’s were not bad on either side. Moreover, there were 5 strong progression guilds PVE Alliance side and 7 progression guilds Horde side. In the Battle grounds, the Horde had 3 to 5 constant roll groups, most “pug’s” were not pugs in BG, and the Alliance had 2 Roll groups in BG at all times, this does not include the various guild groups.
I am beginning to think that the rest of the Vanilla population missed out sorely, your poor devils.
Interesting little fact, they’re not using Blizzard server code at all, their server only tell your client what to see and do, while your client tells the server your intent. The whole thing mimics the loop that Blizzard used back in the day only the timing is faster wrong on the private servers from what I have been reading.
Contrary to what the private server guys love to say, they’re not accurate because of the pure volume of guess work that went into their construction, and that’s fine to a Vanilla-like imitation.
Although we need to give credit where it’s due, and with out the private servers we would not be here right now… That’s a fact.
If you play Paladin in classic, you will be healing, or you won’t find groups. Simple as that.
That’s always been my plan, but carry on.
If they group with you then that will be the case, don’t talk for everyone else please.
Vanilla had all classes and specs in the raids. I would know, my guild ran 14 paladins one night to BWL and we still downed the place. By all means be hyper selective with your raid composition, but i think you will have trouble gearing and keeping all the warriors,rogues and mages happy. At least you won’t be short on nexus crystals.
As long as people turn up to raids on time, prepare before hand and put in the work then i don’t care what they play. Different strokes for different folks, find a guild that will let you play what you want to play. Don’t sacrifice your fun to fit the meta. Classic wow will not be going anywhere, enjoy it, don’t bring the retail mentality of clear and unsub. Your non-meta guild clearing the raid in two nights won’t be any further behind that meta guild clearing it in one.
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Your guild sounds like mine, we had a ret paladin and he was actually really good. He was keeping up just fine 95% of the time and the times he was not keeping up on DPS he was crushing it with cleanse…
Some people don’t know we tracked literally everything regarding a healers role back then. I think some of these people think we lived in the stone ages and communicated with mores code or something on a telegraph…
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Bad in what way?
In BGs, they were pretty darn good.
Check out this good Paladin guide.
Not you specifically. Mostly speaking to those who think they’re gonna play ret and do wild amounts of damage.
It just isn’t gonna happen.
I doubt any one has any delusion that they’re going to top DPS as a paladin in Vanilla, er Classic; it’s just not possible. If somehow some one does figure out a way to make it possible, I would wager it’s not sustainable or even worth while.
As for PVP, I have seen them as extremely destructive; so dangerous in fact that they were IMO more dangerous than the most geared warriors in some ways… This is naturally as you know dependent on what class they’re fighting as the RPS effect applies to all classes regardless of what they may think.
It was a question regarding the two camps of paladin that I observed in actual Vanilla… There were those who were killing it, and those who just complained constantly.
Ya know, kinda like feral druids and several other class builds that were endlessly whining about how they were not as effective as they thought they ought to be.
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God your such a troll, you were saying paladins are bad because they don’t have a taunt.
You should quit attacking people and trying to force others to play your way.
I never had to use taunt to tank efficiently its a group game not a solo game.
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paladins were rather OP with gear in BGs, horde did not QQ about them becuase they did not get a cute furry fuzzy class.
warriors unless carried in 1 vs 1 equalled geared wiill get stomped my a paladin ANY SPEC
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Yes… in VANILLA… which what Classic is based off of.
How often I needed to taunt on a Prot Paladin in THE BURNING CRUSADE It is totally irrelevant to a discussion about Prot Paladins in VANILLA.
How does that make me a troll?
I’m not attacking anyone. You’re the one insulting me.
Also, I’m not forcing anyone to play my way. As I’ve explained before, me choosing not to invite a Ret Paladin to my raid group doesn’t mean I’m forcing them to play a Mage.
Why would you ever need to taunt while soloing? The fact it’s a group game is what makes taunt necessary.
If you’ve never needed to taunt as a Prot Paladin, you clearly never raided as a Prot Paladin. No one did, in fact, because they didn’t have a taunt. Clearly the context behind this conversation is regarding raids.
I even explicitly said I would invite them to dungeons:
If by OP you mean easily kited and forced to bubble every fight or be killed without it, sure.
Paladins didn’t have a slow, a movement speed increase, and their stun was on a minute long cooldown.
The only spec that did remotely decent in PvP was Reckoning during its bugged out state, or “Shockadins,” which were Holy, not Ret.
Ret PvP in vanilla was… serviceable. Against melee it could be better, but against ranged, it was worthless.
You could’ve stopped right here. The only thing Horde didn’t like about Paladins is how every fight with one ended with them bubbling and hearthing out.
Yeah, because the game is obviously 1v1. We’re talking about VANILLA. It’s not a solo game.