Can at least CC the healer on a go and not worry about them dispelling it, they also can’t bail the other Ret out if he’s being locked down. I wouldn’t want to target the Ret and maybe train down the healer, but it at least opens up different situations during a swap.
Where in the nine hells is my Exorcism ?!
15 years without it and Blizzard let me use it for a few weeks?!
Really?!
I mean, REALLY?!?!
Bring it back now, I dont care about “players” opinion if its good or not. If do dmg or not.
Bring
it
back
Rgghh
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If you’re a ret paladin and you don’t think the class is still wildly overpowered and you think that Blizz is being unfair to you by doing this, you’re just delusional
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I can agree the talent is obscenely powerful and needs change, I would prefer to control my dispels instead of relying on using an offensive spell that can auto-fire.
I can also acknowledge the way it functions (and it’s supporting talents like Resonance) haven’t changed and work the same way they have for years.
There’s a fine line between accepting change and giving in to every single complaint the community throws.
It’s disingenuous and driven by passion.
There are stronger classes that don’t see nerfs for entire seasons.
So yes if nobody comes up and speaks out “hey slow down” it will be this, then next week something else, then the next.
With no critical thought.
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Pls introduce me to your dealer
Well, with double Ret you get double Freedom and double Sanc, which negates a lot of the boomy/Spriest/Ele CC already. So it isn’t a huge change regarding the strength of that particular comp.
Like I said, mainly only Hunters will see a noticeable change because they will be able to land Traps more frequently, when it comes to the double ret.
It 100% needs a change, but the strength of providing anti-cc to the team should remain in some fashion. That’s why Cleanse felt like a better mechanic for the job.
It just feels like Ret is quickly being brought back down to it’s 10.0 levels when abilities like this aren’t altered in a way to continue to provide unique benefits for the team. When their damage, healing, survivability is balanced, we are again going to ask “why bring a ret paladin?” “What do we bring outside of damage?”
It also has a lot less value concerning backlash effects, where removing debuffs on yourself only may not be worth the talent point investment.
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Do you disagree with the talent being too powerful and needing change?
Do you disagree that it has been the same for years?
Do you disagree with the community being disingenuous and driven by passion?
Do you disagree with other classes avoiding tuning for much longer?
Probably not, because you’re here to troll aren’t you? Reminder there is a button for that my dude, stop antagonizing without making constructive posts.
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No, it’s just that this has been discussed ad nauseum and there is just so much evidence on the contrary to everything that you’re saying that it’s not worth typing over and over again. It is completely negating entire classes. You are judging twice as much or more outside of toll. Toll is already a lot of extra judges. There is a reason why ret population has done what it’s done in ranked arena since the rework went live. It isn’t just this, but this is obviously super broken.
Well, they have a point with remarks like this from a Ret Paladin PoV.
Stevets has said to remove the JotP interaction, they aren’t justifying it’s existence, just the fact that Ret is a current target for community hate.
It’s a very common and slippery slope for Ret to go okay:
- You nerfed Unbound Freedom.
- You nerfed JotP.
- You are going to nerf Healing.
- You are going to nerf damage.
and… we’re back where we started?
- We are the only melee without an undispellable stun.
- We are the only melee without an undispellable CC. (Blinding Light)
- We are the only melee without an undispellable defensive. (BoP vs AMZ/Rally/Etc)
- We are the only melee without Z-axis movement/influence.
From a Ret’s point of view, changes like these show how quickly we can go back to being completely “useless” because situations like the ones above are yet to be addressed.
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What the hell is going on in this thread
I’m so confused 
I understand JotP is busted with double judge dispel, but we have had a way to cleanse magical debuffs in the past and now lose that.
IN ADDITION to losing 2 of our other viable pvp talents. WOW thanks blizzard. We now have 3 viable options for pvp talents that actually do SOMETHING.
This game is actually a disaster. Is it really hard to give us improved cleanse with a longer cd but dispels 1 magic affect?
I understand the reluctance, traditionally we give up something in exchange for nothing.
Something that other classes don’t understand as well as we do.
However I stated that I don’t care for it as it currently exists, I think what it represents shouldn’t be tied to Judgment.
Magic cleanse on a 15sec CD would be infinitely better, predictable and fair gameplay.
How can I campaign for that without saying that JotP needs to go? That’s not the same as giving the haters ammo, at least not purposefully.
They should have just deleted the talent. It’s a toxic mechanic with no counter play.
LMAO, yea ok…, This would literally only be “fair gameplay” if you half’ed their damage and their survivability and made them a pure support class.
15/20 even 25 sec seems reasonable, do you prefer JotP? Or just another troll.
Impressive how the pvp community seems to be smaller, but manage to cry louder than anyone else.
Anyway, this was a predictable nerf. On the bright side, of all the QQ going on, this is the only change being announced, makes me hope this is where the nerfs stop, because even though PvP crybabies dont believe, the class is in a good spot right now.
I guess another good thing is that we now won’t have a hard time choosing PvP talents, since most of them are either a total garbage, or not working at all (hallowed ground with consacrated blade, or aura of reckoning with crusading strikes).
And i hope no PvE related changes are even mentioned… Ret is somewhat competitive now, even though it brings no real utility to party/raid.
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Just about all ret pvp talents r utter trash, we have like 3 useful ones and you’re about to nerf another one to trash just like the rest. Ret rework was pointless, it feels more fun but it’ll be just as dog sht if not worse then before by time they’re done tuning ret. Nerfing crit dmg to n 10.1, tier set looks dog sht, so far you’ve made the only useful non situational pvp talents trash , even the situational ones other then sanct r garbage. just delete pvp talents for ret it’s clear you don’t want us using any.
You cry babies just want ret deleted at this point. Please shut up, their 1min wings isn’t the issue.
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I think this speaks more to the overall strength of ret beyond this change. Even without this, double ret has pretty bonkers damage + tankiness.
The only thing missing is a mortal wounds effect, but if ya live long enough dampening takes care of that for ya 
You can’t dispell spellwarding.
BOOM GOT 'EM!
Ok jokes aside, the issue with ret having great utility is: it has incredible damage and solid defensives now. There’s a triangle of things for specs: damage / defensives / utility (utility includes cc and/or mobility).
We should want all specs to be roughly an “A” across most of those. Problems arise when specs are leading contenders in all categories. Every single time a spec is “op” it has a combination of all three. The tradeoff for high utility/cc should be low defensives, or low utility/cc but being a huge damage bot, etc.
Ret’s historic weaknesses were: 1) poor mobility and 2) poor defensives into casters
Mobility is much better because of the extra range on abilities, but jotp made some of ret’s traditional nemeses functionally useless. I’d rather they do an active selection dispel like the old blessing of sacrifice, which was a long cd but dispelled all magic effects. I think we’re on the same page there, at minimum 30 sec cd, single target dispel.
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It’s been getting dog sht on since the rework non stop and let’s not act like they have a good history balancing ret. Now we only have like 1 useful pvp talent that don’t require a specific situation , and even those r crap.
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Pillar of Frost has entered the chat
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