Oh yeah, and I think Ret’s will still be strong, but it depends on what is announced on Friday.
I think Ret could use some damage taken out of TV/DS/Arbiter and put into BoJ/Expurgation like it had before 10.0.7.
But there has to be a balance to the changes, and historically Ret hasn’t gotten that treatment.
So for example, if they’re going to nerf JotP and damage, it would be nice to make Unbound Freedom undispellable again, or consider making Blinding Light undispellable.
In terms of PvP strength, in 10.0.7 we gained damage, survivability and the utility of JotP. If those 3 things end up getting nerfed, we will have come out of this revamp with nothing.
But it’s hard to get that information across because people see it as “it’s supposed to be a nerf” rather than, lets balance this spec.
3 Likes
As a shaman main I commiserate fully on the swings from “useless” to “op af”.
I thought the point of the rework was to shift damage away from burst into better sustained, and it seems like they just made the burst more frequent instead of increasing builder damage.
Agreed - I honestly always felt like the ‘hybrids’ were their best with strong utility, and either strong defensives or strong damage.
P.S. they really need to fully rework ret pvp talents in 10.1…
3 Likes
u guys cant just make it hotfix? we paid 4 endurin this trash spec?
Lmao I love you for this reference.
1 Like
Wait so it will still cleanse 3 separate debuffs ? Not just one? Are you sure this was thought out properly?
Yay i get Nerfed by proximity again…
1 Like
It’s a complaint about the cleanses…
Not the actual Judgment talent. Great straw man argument you have there.
Yes because 1 talent should remove every single dot class in the game. gtfo
1 Like
This is a decision that makes zero sense. It doesn’t address any issue with how the class plays, and it does not give any advantage to any class that doesn’t already counter paladins, like mages, locks, and hunters. It doesn’t address how tanky they are or their one shot abilities while wings are up.
DKs would like a word, I imagine.
No other dps in this game can cleanse 3 different things on more than themselves with one button.
You might have something like Cloak of Shadows to cleanse yourself of everything at once, but that’s about it. Otherwise you’re limited to dispelling an ally of a single thing (with Remove Curse as a shaman, for instance)
This was a horribly broken talent and the fact you can’t see that is crazy.
Especially after the ret rework that gave them insane survivability.
Lost all credibility as soon as you said this.
range is not mobility. stop lying to yourself that it is.
Otherwise we’d have to convince ourselves that range classes is the epitome of mobility that all classes should strive for and mages would be considered more mobile then DH/monks. (LOL)
I really don’t understand ppls logic that range for pallies = mobility when no one even considers that for other classes. (Felt like an Uther moment there.)
As for my opinion on this pvp talent, I never used it anyways so meh. I don’t think it is powerful enough to prevent ret’s from dying due to being kited, it doesn’t add to our defense really (it’s only effective against what, one class? Due to ease of reapplying debuffs) And it’s not a guaranteed to hit a magical CC, which if I was playing on my ret I’d care more about.
Edit:
I can only think of one class that does more then one type of debuff. And for that class those debuffs is so easy to reapply, that they don’t even notice they where gone. AND I PLAY THAT CLASS LOL! (DK)
Also it only works if you cast judgement on the player that given the paladin those debuffs. So it’s not going to dispel more then 1 at 95% of the time.
1 Like
Everything you have nerfed no longer gets used by Rets. You don’t know how to tone anything down, you literally render everything you touch unusable. This is just another example.
We have less pvp talents than anyone now. Half of the ones we have are already gutted to the point nobody uses them. What a great “rework” guys.
2 Likes
What do you mean the fact that I can’t see that, I have stated as such? Read?
I’m not talking about an AoE indiscriminate multi dispel here, I’m talking about the spell Cleanse that clears 1 person alone, being able to be pvp talented to also remove 1 magic, naturally on a longer cooldown.
I don’t know if you know, or judging by your posts simply don’t care, but our PvP talents are absolute trash.
If do you care to know here’s a funny fact, the current Divine Resonance judgment spam + JotP interaction we have has been the same for almost 2 and a half years, the exact same.
DKs will be able to AMS someone else come 10.1, that seems horribly broken, I bet if I start looking thru your post history I will see no complaining about that, huh?
So no I don’t think a single-target cleanse that can do magic, that requires a talent and that is in a much greater cooldown (25/30 sec) is horribly broken.
100k + oblit spam ftw and pillar isn’t even 1 min it’s like Half that with ice cap talent
Judgment’s of the pure tunning.
We Judge it bad 
Range is not mobility my guy. Mobility helps me get to targets faster, catch people running around pillars, root clearing and cc immunity, LoS. Range does nothing for you if you’re as slow as ret is and people can easily LoS or catch you . Mobility is the same if not worse then pre rework since unbound freedom is dispellable.
1 Like
What??
Ret is supposed to be support dps. Just nerf how often it can purge things. Make it so it can only happen every 10 seconds or something. The issue here is, eventually they will nerf Rets damage. Once that happens, Ret will no longer have the utility, won’t have surviviability, and they didn’t give Ret any extra mobility besides a 10% movement speed lol.
Theyll be back to square one lmao
1 Like
Since the rework: more burst, less sustained, more tanky, no extra mobility, same utility. Soooooo what happened exactly??
All Rets wanted was more mobility and tankiness. They instead gave Ret insane burst. Insane utility. Insane tankiness.
They’ll nerf the dam. They’ll nerf the tankiness. Eventually the rework will amount to literally nothing.
How can blizz not TUNE things properly?? Reduce the damage modifiers. Give them proper mobility. Easy fix. This rework has literally done nothing now other than big burst after the nerfs. Back to square 1.
1 Like
Immunities, self sustain, strong defensives.
Every spec in the game seems to have to pick 2, but ret gets all 3. Please address Ret being absurdly more tanky than every class in the game in both PvE and PvP.
At this point even Rogues can call Ret Paladin defensives busted.
You don’t need to catch targets if you can hit them from range! The more you know.
Really only need to connect for wake. Even the extra bit of range on FV feels great.