The issue is not that it is not true to TBC, the issue is that 2-way twisting was not in TBC and therefore balance and itemization was not adjusted to account for it. Two-way twisting could upset the class balance and gear itemization dramatically, pushing Pally higher than they are supposed to be and create a situation where Blizzard has to go back and rebalance everyone else accordingly,
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Honestly, having played both, the timing of them at around a 3.x speed weapon is pretty much identical in feel.
The main difference is that your “free” globals under 2 way twisting are used to set up twists under 1 way.
The actual GCD crowding and timing of them ends up virtually identical (you shift seal of command back like .4s), especially when you are using judgement, which on 2 way twists forces you to do the setup that 1 way twisting normally requires.
2 way twisting in practice is fairly similar to 1 way as far as the button press timings, you just get far more damaging GCDs in from 2 way, making it a dps buff that players are primarily asking for.
That would be fine if the “some changes” of tbc included class rebalancing for all of the classes, but it hasn’t, and the seal of blood change is already pushing it.
Plus if blizz was going to be doing a rebalancing, I’d want damage applied more universally, rather than doubling down on twisting.
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That’s simply untrue. We’ve seen it play out on pserv and it’s just a QOL. Nothing changes, ret doesn’t become god, it just feels like it operates like how it always should have. No weird itemizations happen, no dominance occurs. Sure on the single rank and spank boss which is also a demon we do well but still lose to hunters lmao. This just needs to be put in the grave with twisting between all seals so we can all enjoy and move on
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PServer are not Official servers. It is confirmed that PServers got many calculations wrong and did not accurately replicate abilites and the complex interactions between class balance.
PServers were someone’s best guess and some of those guesses where wrong. PServers are not a valid comparison to how things will work or act on Official servers.
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You’re missing the point - your own point there was that you’d have to re-tool the entire system (alarmist overreaction btw because it’s so close to one way). And you want to at the same time deny ant and all evidence of dozens of pserver environments as all 100% wrong to justify your already rashly off base point. It’s silly! You already agree it’s basically the same at minmax gear levels due to haste restrictions. It’s literally a QOL
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in a lot of cases pservers values were higher due to proc rates being higher. the ongoing discussion is stormherald may be just as good as lionheart because it has higher base stats and a more suitable swing speed for twisting as lionheart doesnt proc as much as it does on pservers.
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No, I will not and I bet many others will not accept PServer data as proof of anything. It is not Blizzard code and therefore is not a valid reference environment.
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Then we want seal of the martyr back because that name was literally pulled from pseevers hahahahahaha DUAL TWIST LEGOOOO
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You do realize Seal of the Martyr was part of WoW back in 2008 right?
It was wotlk but hey you trust your sources right lol
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As I said, it was around in 2008:
" Patch 3.0.2 (2008-10-14): Added. Available only to Alliance paladins.
Oh so we agree it’s not TBC original. And entire faction will have to re balance and change all of their gearing between multiple class priorities, but you’re ok with that
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Well honestly if it created a balance issue of such proportion they would just undo it rather than rebalancing everyone.
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As for the overall post I fully support my blood elf paladin friends here!
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And now you are trying to change the subject. This post has nothing to do with Seal of the Martyr. You brought it up to try and create some convoluted connection that does not exisit.
You aren’t ok with thousands of testimonies from pseevers but are perfectly ok with wotlk balancing from another expansion? Idk what ur getting at lol
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And you are the one that is ok with comparing an Apple to an Orange!
As long as everyone is clear that you want #somechanges but just not these in particular
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Mostly just classic paladins who are used to auto attacking and want to continue to do so without fear of competition for the one ret spot in a raid.
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1 way twisting will be the top dps rotation for ret, and is just about equally GCD intensive as 2 way twisting, so that “we want to AFK” argument falls pretty flat.
Twisting is going to be the best ret rotation. There’s no legitimate reason to expand it to work both ways while keeping with the original balancing of TBC.
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