I think I would certainly appreciate the bidirectional seal twisting.
For clarification, the unidirectional twist is just SoC into Martyr/Blood? If so, sounds like a pain.
13 Likes
Bi-directional seal twisting would probably result in a pretty huge dps increase. Since every auto attack with SoB would have 2 chances to proc SoC which in turn would result in 2 procs of SoB, right? Such an interaction would result in a 140% unmitigated (2xSob+1SoC) extra weapon damage. That’s almost twice the damage of CS, which should deal 77% weapon damage after (boss) armor.
Hell, depending on how the math works out. With enough haste you might actually drop CS from the rotation and only twist with SoB>SoC.
CS is too important to the raid to keep judgements up
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Ohh yeah, you are absolutely right. I forgot about that aspect. CS refreshes all judgments.
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absolutely no.
seal twisting is infinitely more fun than auto attacking all day
theyd have to buff ret so much that ret could 1shot people in pvp with command bursts to make up for the loss of twisting
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Have they fixed twisting yet? Was working fine for a while on PTR until they broke it.
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Seal twisting isn’t exactly “fun” you watch a timer and press the button, lol. Seal twisting also makes is possible to one shot people currently with a WF totem, so whats the difference, besides i was thinking more along the lines of judgement damage of blood/command scaling off your melee stats instead of keeping it on spell power when you don’t have any other that judging crusader, lol.
I’ve heard that blizz fixed an issue on beta regarding the way seal of blood delivered it’s damage, and when they fixed that, bi-directional twisting was removed. so it looks like it could be unintended by the devs. Let’s hope it is.
as opposed to what? auto attacking all day? get outta here.
seal twisting should remain.
3 Likes
Its far more interesting watching the fight than a timer, so yeah, lol.
if youre good you can do both…
sounds like user error to me
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I guess people sometimes forget to read the rules of engagement in the forum.
1 Like
gonna make a post “Blizzard is my favorite spell. its a lovely shade of Blue. What is yours Kaivax?”
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That’s mostly correct, but the twist part is only an extra 105% weapon damage (you were going to get 35% of it from blood even if you didn’t successfully twist). It also only triggers at the rate of your SoC, so on a 3.6 speed weapon, about 42% of the time, making it an average gain of 44.1% weapon damage. Worth noting, raid bosses can partially resist this as well, which cuts into it further, so CS always remains a stronger button to press on average than a seal twist if you are choosing between them.
Avoidance also hits twisting pretty hard, as if either the white hit or the triggered SoC miss/dodge/parry, the entire twist goes down the drain. The potential 2 blood hits can also be avoided, making avoidance triple dip on mitigating a seal twisting paladin.
That all said, 2 way twisting shouldn’t be in the game simply because it allows weapons to be chosen that allow both twisting AND CS, where in the correct single direction twisting, you are forced to choose between a CS or a twist every time CS comes off cooldown.
QoL changes don’t adjust class balancing, 2 way twisting does.
Seal twisting was never removed, people just don’t like what seal twisting is and want it made better.
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Don’t engage the troll everybody, if we’re bugged we deserve to be fully bugged because WE LIKE THE TWIST
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If the goal of Classic Burning Crusade is to maintain player power as it was then this is the most sensible change.
1 Like
requesting 2 way twisting is like hunters asking for steady shot to not push back auto shots as a “quality of life” increase and ignoring the balance concerns of it.
You can’t ok it just for paladins because your perception of them is bottom tier DPS.
2 Likes
People are severely overestimating the dps increase provided by seal twisting. A successful twist adds 105% unmitigated wd each cycle vs just SoB. However a twist is not guaranteed and operates on a ppm of 7. This means you have a 42% chance with a 3.6 speed weapon and a 44% chance with a 3.8 speed weapon. This averages out to an additional 44.1% unmitigated wd @ 3.6 and 46.2% unmitigated wd @ 3.8.
Let’s take a reasonable level of boss armor DR after debuffs of 7700 - 3100 - 610 - 800 = 23% DR. This equates out to 100 * .77 + 35 = 112% wd for non twist vs 100 * .77 + 35 + (70 + 35) * .44 = 158.2% wd for average twisted. This is a 41% increase to auto cycle dps.
However, the real downfall of seal twisting has to do with the hard floor of a 3.0 AS which affects all forms of seal twisting. Let’s do a deep dive of haste as it interacts with our attack window. With a 3.6 speed weapon your haste limit is 20% and with a 3.8 speed weapon your haste limit is 26.6%. Here’s the most commonly available sources of haste:
- Mongoose - 2%
- Drums - 80 hr - 5.07%
- DST - 325 hr - 20.6%
- Abacus - 260 hr - 16.49%
- Thundering Skyfire - 15.21%
- Haste Potion - 400 hr - 25.35%
- Bloodlust - 30%
As stated before, Bloodlust is right out regardless of which weapon speed is being used. That really sucks.
With just mongoose procced, 3.6 weapon speed is locked out of benefiting from DST and Haste Potions while 3.8 weapon speed is locked out of Haste Potions. If your group has drums, 3.6 is locked out of all other sources of haste available while 3.8 is locked out of everything except Abacus and meta gem.
In general twisting will be higher dps but the difference won’t be game breaking and your choices in gearing and availability of external buffs will be limited if you choose to twist. And just to be clear, I absolutely think bidirectional twisting should be an option. Just want people to understand that it isn’t pure pwnage in PvE as some seem to think it is.
11 Likes
Bloodlust also provides spell haste, which reduces the GCD of seals, so it doesn’t interrupt a twisting rotation.
That’s a 40% gain in damage per auto cycle DPS, while losing nothing from CS. The 3.0 speed also isn’t a hard cap, it just becomes less useful once you start forcing decisions between CS and twists.
if you could read, the person im replying to is arguing in favor of removing seal twisting in favor of buffing rets damage output.
3 Likes
Two-way twisting again or bust @blizzard
12 Likes