Has anyone played around with a build using sotc and maxing crit?
If you have, can you share your insights?
I’m not interested in hearing about what all the guides say, I’ve read them. I’m interested in a comparison between running soc vs a crit sotc build from people who have actually field tested it.
An additional question is what exactly is the dmg penalty from having sotc up? What are the actual numbers?
Your best spec is witchfury…
At your highest gear levels (full naxx) you compete with a molten core geared fury warrior.
You can try to be the meme but follow the guides you already have to work 5 times as hard as any dps to compete with a hunter pet.
It can work. Improved SotC on a 2.6 or faster weapon is almost always better than SoC.
It’s tough to suss out the actual amount of reduction SotC inflicts because it also buffs your attack power while speeding up the weapon. It “seems” to be about 20%.
The ideal weapon for this build would probably be Destiny with a Crusader enchant on it.
The primary drawback would be that you would then be subject to the full armor of everything like a warrior or rogue would be. No holy damage armor bypass.
Ret is more of a burst damage spec for pvp than a dps spec. Paladin as a class just doesn’t have to tools to do high sustained output.
In PVP, it can be a beast. Nice big 2h with soc can lay people out.
In a 1v1 setting on classes without sustain or a pvp trinket…
In actual pvp pallies are again only threatening as healers.
Keep thinking that up until you get instafraggd by a paladin with Hand of Rag, Ashkandi, or Might of Menethil.
…how?
By that point pvp trinkets are a thing so his stun is negated so he loses his burst window and again just does less dmg then a warrior.
The retardin relies on 1v1 ambushes but isn’t a threat in any kind of group pvp.
I find they are actually better in group than in 1v1. In 1v1 you can kite them to oblivion. In group pvp, they are always able to get to someone.
… I don’t get these kind of what if arguments.
We know they are bad. We have 15 years of knowing they are bad. We have seen every spec and possible playstyle and know they are bad.
Why do these fringe arguments exist where people say if all the stars align just right they can kinda sorta be good if you squint?
I think Pallies are just annoying and try not to engage unless I really have to.
They are tough to burst and yet usually cant hurt you unless slotted heavy deeps with trinks and firecrackers.
Its like fighting a moving, usually dwarf-sized, target dummy (melee perspective)
Octobers on Faerlina has Rag (by far one of coolest server community events ive seen) and immediately became a target.
Lets be real: Horde players good enough to take him out ( happens all the time) understand the reality that taking down a pally, even with Rag, isnt some monumental thing. Octobers would likely say the same.
Paladin in ancient Titan language translates to: “not quite a pre BiS prot warrior, even Ret, but good looking with healz, very Charismatic”
Right?
Pallys are one of the most threatening pvp healers in the game with the sheer amount of dmg and cc they can simply shrug off. I am just confused why so many think they are a dps ckass.
Its like watching a kid dress up as a cop. Its adorable but I would never want them to actually try to arrest drug dealers.
Pvp trinket is on cooldown for 98% of a BG, just sayin. Would be silly to base assumptions on everyone having a zero cd pvp trinket
The thread doesn’t speculate on if they are good.
The thread is about comparing two palli dps builds, and more specifically asking people who have field tested to share their numbers.
I don’t understand why palli threads always have people coming in just to say pslli dps is bad. Its been 15 years. We’ve heard it before.
You are asking to know about the difference between cat poop and dog poop. The fact of the matter is that they are both poop.
Obligatory lolret post.
And also, apparently, the fact of the matter is that you can’t tell the difference. Really, try to know your s*** before opening your mouth. 
I had both BIS ret gear and BIS healing gear in Vanilla, I know my difference between cat poop and dog poop. The answer is that it isn’t big enough for you or your raid to notice the difference. Both ret playstyles are also stale and boring. As you venture further and further into MC/BWL as a poopadin, you will feel your insides slowly eat themselves as your impact on their raid’s well-being becomes more and more comical.
As fellow meme spec shadow priest - play something else or be healer. You’ll thank yourself later