Okay.
But its the difference I’m curious about.
What was your bis ret gear? I infer from your post you actually tried a crit build. Is this correct?
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What does healing gear have to do with his question?
Free plug for everything Esfand: he really has maxed Charisma for ret pally irl and would largely agree with everything said about pallies except the pve poop stuff. He would take exception that.
But hes not taking his pally into cross-class duel tourneys and expecting (no pun intended) miracles.
On the flip side, his Crusade group is nasty af, and killed Thrall a month ago on Faerlina for lulz right during my rogues quest chain. People took turns sitting in his throne during the very annoying cooldown.
I also loved my vanilla pally. They will wreck BGs in the next few rollouts tbc etc.
Alas, warriors have eternal smack rites upon Pallys who think they are in the club 
Again: I will watch the pally skip by me in wpvp because I don’t want an eternal fight in the open and have a sub spec Ambush/GS/poison me and then blind…ret pally pulls out Rag and finishes the job. Or…giant Simba pet gnawing on leg…incoming frost bolt…weird void thing…the list goes on.
TLDR: on warrior, I fear all the Pallys friends worse than the Pally.
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Even woth trinket. Judge isnt on gcd so u can still hammer+judge for the burst thst comes with stunned target. Besides a ret that ia ret/prot and some pvp gear has a 35s cd on stun. Much shorter than a trinket cooldown and a paladin could easily make a fight last 35s.
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That’s a really dumb build, please don’t subject anyone to that.
It’s so dumb nobody is even simming it, there won’t be any numbers because you’re already looking at something like a 25% throughput gap at cap between SoC and SoTC for auto attacks.
If nobody is or has simmed it, how do you know?
Here’s my Golemag kill. Seal of Command and Judgement of command are doing 39% of my damage.
classic . warcraftlogs . com/reports/8fTpJwLj3zMWn6Dt#fight=26&type=damage-done
Cut the spaces, blizzard doesn’t like me posting links i guess.
Thanks. I’ll check that out. At least its useful info.
So auto dmg was making up the rest?
Auto attacks were 40%, Consecrate was 15%, hammer of wrath was 3%, and misc consumables were about 2%.
Just please don’t use SotC as a DPS seal, it really just doesn’t work at any level. Righteousness for 3.3 speed or faster, and Command for 3.4 or slower. Command has a normalized procs per minute, so it will proc a LOT more often on slow weapons than fast ones.
SoTC hardly modifies my white hits at all (doing about 300~ regularly with or without crusader), but I can proc Command for over 1k.
I think the big difference, on top of just damage, would be resealing. With command or righteousness, you don’t need to re-seal for an offensive judgement.
That’s crap… Any paladin who knows how to pally is a threat in group situations. HoJ, SoJ, BoF, BoP, clinch heals, cleanses, auras all coupled with reasonably high armor and burst damage… A ret paladin is not a DPS class. It’s a support/utility class. Not using all the utility of a utility class is a waste, and a whole lot less fun, IMO.
rets stacking AP are bad for this very reason. I’m a hybrid AP/SP build (i STRONGLY disagree with esfand when he questions the viability of the build), do as much DPS as the AP ret in my raid, and do twice the healing when it comes to it. Ret’s strength is in hybrid scaling and the ability to swap on the fly between an offensive burst class and an offhealer and support.
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Honestly, why not try it? The way WoW was originally built was all about trial & error, and exploration. Have some fun!
Farm up some gear that seems like it’d work, and see if it’s a play style that fits you as a player.
Ret pallies are never gonna top meters, nor should they aspire to. The thing to do is not do too much worse than they already are.
A concern regarding SotC I’d have is the fact that judging it is a debuff, and with only 16 allowed per mob, this play style might be gimped even more in raid situations.
Oh, I’m 100% going to try it. I’d never totaly trust or rely on anything in these forums.
Its pretty rare around here that someone isn’t just rehashing popular opinion.
I’m actually using all 3 seals right now in 5 mans, depending on the situation. A 40% swing speed increase is huge.
If you want to use Crusader, look into Sealtwisting, where you get the 40% speed, as well as the damage on righteousness, or the roll for a command proc.
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Thanks, I’ll check that out.
Gods… gotta run that through google translate lol. My hearing isn’t what it used to be. This’ll take a few.
I’m not talking about judging crusader at all.
I judge command, reseal to r1 Crusader, wait on the auto, and swap to Command, and then I’ll judge command again.
Doesn’t this apply an extra debuff? Do you have that slot?
I’m not talking about judging crusader at all.
I judge command, reseal to r1 Crusader, wait on the auto, and swap to Command, and then I’ll judge command again.
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I see, I wonder how that works with spell batching. Kind of interesting.
Both SoR and SoC apply after a brief delay, just after the auto attack, and SotC’s speed bonus is applying to the auto attack as it starts coming out. Doesn’t have much to do with spellbatching, just the way seals work. There’s about a .2 second window, as the attack is coming out, between when the SotC auto and when the game checks to see if you have an offensive seal.
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