Arguing for the existence of owlweaving is just being intentionally obtuse for the sake of arguing. Should just ignore the person and move on. This talent was already changed because of similar issues in the beta cycle, it’s clear it’s not the gameplay pattern Blizzard wants to encourage.
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But youre the one who made the correlation of a single spec missing out on 2% potential and a sub 2% boss wipe. Not me.
Its not. A 2% drop in my performance is more than made up by playing better. Assuming im playing at 99%, 2% performance can be made up by other dps playing .015% better (or DPS getting 2 more crits on their finisher abilities ober the course of the fight) or everyone in raid raising their ilvl by 2.
Because its entirely optional. And bosses arent tuned around everyone being max level and playing at 95% of their potential to down them. Nor are people routinely failing an encounter because a single spec alone is performing at 50k less than it “could” be if played fully optimally. Just like in Shadowlands, for the majority of Feral users, it was BETTER to not owlweave than spend 1 GCD too long in Moonkin form. It wad a very fine line with marginal gains (just like now). Just like opening with Sunfire in Bear form range gave marginal gains but had major downsides if done improperly.
Weird, yet youre saying a sub 2% wipe could have been entirely averted by a single player and their talent choice.
Also not sure if you know this but… boss 2% is not the same as a single spec 2% damage. Feral would have to increase their DPS by 25% to cover the extra 2% of a bosses health.
And what about trying and failing? Like owlweaving led to in SL for most. Or people who are bad with Bloodtalons perform better with LS even though its 10% less damage on finishers? These are all very real things. Is the potential gain when played optimally worth the potential loss when played improperly (which would be more common).
Its not. It wouldnt even be noticable. 2% on ST fights is like 10 million damage overall. Which is like .15% (thats right, not even a full %) of the bosses overall health (based on S1 numbers). Thats 4-5 total crits from any of the other 15 DPS contributing to the fight over the course of the encounter.
Absolutely, i agree. But again, how often is an encounter failing because a single person is playing at 98% instead of 99.9%.
Encounters arent failing because a single person is losing out on a potential of 2% overall damage.
When Mythic encounters can be cleared by full green parsing raid groups, a single person playing at 98% potential isnt the make or break factor
That 1-2% overall damage can easily be mustered up to having to deal with one extra mechanic per encounter or not. You know how much of a difference 2% makes? Its the difference between #1 parsing slot and #2 parsing slot. That is it. There is a bigger gap between #2 and #3 than 2% overall.
Are you claiming that #3 parsing Feral and anything below that are simply:
Thats definitely a take right there
Interesting take from someone who’s grey/green parsing heroic and can’t clear aotc.
Your argument is pure nonsense and this type of emergent gameplay is obviously problematic and shouldn’t be encouraged regardless of the gain it provides.
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1st week in raid
Playing Balance which i never do
AoTC progression guild
Ran like 5 different characters/specs through the raids with them as they needed. They got AoTC on a week i was working and i havent bothered to jump into raid since.
Would you like me to jump into a Heroic farm group to show you actual parse numbers?
Its entirely logical and backed by logs actually.
Nor is it problematic as its entirely optional and most players would perform better NOT attempting to owlweave.
Just like youre better off with Lions Strength if you cant maintain 60-70% of your finishers being used with Bloodtalons
Cope
Seehte
Mald
You know logs are publicly available information?
It’s not. Your argument is invalidated by Blizzard frequently taking action to prevent Owlweaving from happening several times in the past.
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You must not have played shadowlands or feral very long if you think owl weaving is totally fine
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Correct. You should learn how to read them
And yet here are they, adding in a talent that embraces shifting (which is a major component of DoTC hero talent if you want it to be). Odd.
I never said owlweaving was fine (I seldom bothered with it in SL as the gains werent worth the effort). I said the talent existing is fine as its entirely optional and outside of maybe 40 Ferals, no one is going to know if youre using it or not, nor be required to use it
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/character/id/38982356?boss=2921
I think they mostly speak for themselves.
Hey funny you should mention that, here’s a quote from the TWW alpha about that very hero talent!
Our intention for the Empowered Shapeshifting / Wildpower Surge node is for it to offer mostly defensive value for Feral and a mix of offensive and defensive power for Guardian, with a passive and more active shapeshifting option. Wildpower Surge should offer meaningful damage for Guardians who use it regularly (as well as granting them the defensive bonuses of effects like Ursine Vigor and Wildshape Mastery). We don’t intend for Wildshape Mastery’s damage bonus for Feral Druids to be so strong that they use it every time it’s available, as that’s a significant complexity increase to their rotation. Instead, it’s intended to ease the damage cost of entering Bear Form as a defensive.
Might be some good reading material for you if you manage to stop drooling at your keyboard long enough.
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He has 20k forum posts so i think your in for much more keyboard drooling
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It’s annoying for resto as well, because caster form haste doesn’t follow you into other forms. Seems odd. I would say it was a bug, but there was a note from the patch directly about it. LAME.
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This talent was clearly not intended to create situations like this, as can be seen in the fix for resto druids. Shapeshifting is fun when it adds utility and survivability, like shifting into bear for dangerous unavoidable damage, or shifting into moonkin form for flap or wild charge. Owlweaving already had its moment and it’s been clear that the community did not like it, it actively complicated the rotation and made it less fun, and Blizzard has acknowledged that they don’t want to create situations like this.
Please fix the talent, rework it, or remove it so that optimizing our spec doesn’t result in us being in moonkin form 20% of a fight. While I agree that people could simply choose to ignore the potential increased DPS from this, time and time again it’s been shown that players want to and will optimize their damage to accomplish their goals and push PvE content as far as they can, which is completely within their right. Fixing unintended outcomes that result in degenerate and unenjoyable gameplay to optimize your spec should be a top priority.
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Yes
No
This makes no sense
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As mentioned, you really need to learn how to read logs if youre gonna use them for any form of proof/evidence in your arguments lol
Yeah you’ll notice how it mentions not using it every time it’s available, and it still adds more defensive value than it does offensive. And you wont be shifting to Moonkin form every 5 seconds. Theres an entire criteria checklist to go through before switching to Moonkin form for a stat buff.
I mean its cute, you talking down to me, yet we’re parsing the same. Me on progression, you on farm. Kinda embarrassing
Removing it puts you at the same DPS as not using it. But removing it takes away the defensive value of it for all specs. And you’d maybe be in moonkin form for 2-3% of the fight…for a 1-2% dps gain.
You’re not going to notice whether someone is “optimizing” their role or not with such meager “gains”. The difference in DPS is the same as an extra trinket proc or two, whether youre targetted by an extra mechanic or two, a couple extra omen procs, all over the course of an encounter.
Okay
Yes. If youre bad at owlweaving, you’ll lose more dps than if you never did it, like if you cant get 60-70% of your finishers with BT, youre better off with LS
It existing as an option is fine. Its not mandatory. Maim is a talent, its optional, its not mandatory.
While they’re at it could they make moonfire/sunfire proc bloodseeker vines for resto so I can use be a caster Wildstalker without missing half the benefits from the hero talents?
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You brought up parsing in the first place as an excuse for why this bit of optimization doesn’t matter, no need to lie about not being able to get aotc. I’ll even send you the gold to buy yourself a carry!
Selective reading comprehension truly off the charts. You’re just being obstinate for the sake of being obstinate.
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Like you said, logs are public. You can see the last time i participated in raid and when my guild got aotc lol
Lack of critical thinking is off the charts. Back to copy and pasting everything someone else says for you. Shoo shoo
So you’re saying owlweaving is fine
As an option for those who want to do it, yes.
Content isnt tuned around Ferals taking this one talent.
Owlweaving has always been an option
Luckily for the rest of us with fully formed frontal lobes Blizzard clearly disagrees.
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