No if it existed an you knew it existed there would be some study on it. Something providing numbers from people who applied for disability.
Not saying people can’t or won’t lie online. But anecdotal cases don’t mean “it usually is.”
I disagree with your stance on overwolf, but that aside - arguing with people on the GD forums about stuff like this is (disabilities, not overwolf) only going to upset you.
it’s not worth it. half the people here come just to troll and argue.
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There have been articles written about how reality doesn’t match the claim that there is this over-abundance of fraud. https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2013/08/everything-you-think-you-know-about-government-fraud-is-wrong/278690/
You started typing without reading that article. It goes into the process of applying and the checks and balances. They ask for everything. Including sometimes your blood.
This also goes into what is found when they go looking for fraud.
4.8% of cases were fraud across the board for all forms of assistance. https://www.pewtrusts.org/en/research-and-analysis/blogs/stateline/2017/05/24/what-happens-when-states-go-hunting-for-welfare-fraud
And I asked for numbers on that because you stated that so confidentally that I thought you had proof.
No I won’t keep it to myself. You could link specific ones you think are fake. You are making the erroneous claims here. I’m just asking you to back that up. Since it’s quite the huge claim.
So back to the main topic (please). In my situation, which mirrors the situation of a lot of addon developers, as it pertains to choices of where we can put our addons:
I don’t speak for all addon developers, but in my asking around this is what I get:
Most of us are kind of OK with how Overwolf is working out the kinks of their system (things like a better search function, for example, would be enjoyed), and are obviously OK with giving Overwolf a chance to prove themselves as they have not done anything in our minds that is questionable recently. Getting hit with a security breach doesn’t count - that will likely happen to every business in the world at some point in time. It’s nice that they offer some form of reward to addon developers and this is one of many reasons I’ll continue to publish my addons there, but I am under no obligation to remain exclusive to them and I’m not an idiot who thinks I can convince everyone to use their service by not putting my addons elsewhere too.
Most of us are probably ok with Wago.io - it’s just that most players haven’t made their way over to using their addon manager yet so it’s hard to justify the extra steps for a tiny audience, but really, most of us are probably OK with using them. I wasn’t on there a year ago because I was concerned about how people may have felt considering that Method owns them and I needed to personally see Method have a bit of cooling down period from the controversy that they had not very long before the Wago.io addons first announcement.
A whole lot of us… I can’t say if it’s most for sure, but a lot do not like WoWUP due to the disregard that they had for us or what their method of putting addons into their app came to be. I think I’ve adequately covered in my prior posts but tldr; for folks scrolling to the end: They kind of forced our addons to be on their app. They knew we weren’t happy about it. They knew Curseforge didn’t want them there. They just reach out to us and ask us first like Wago did? They violated us in a way and pretty much sent the message that it’s because they hate Overwolf and too bad for us for being caught in the crossfire.
The problem is that since Wago got into an agreement with WoWUP, it now appears that if any of us want to put our addons on Wago, we might be required to have WoWUp also having access to our addons again… when we only just recently got them out of our hair. I hope that this isn’t the case and Wago is able to tell us that it will be our choice, but I haven’t heard anything either way yet.
You, as the community… tell us what you expect addon developers to do here.
I don’t want players to stop using my addon over this. It doesn’t matter if their download counts for some reward points or otherwise, if they support or not… It does matter to me that I don’t want to feel dirty about dealing with WoWUP. It does matter if I’m able to support myself with this because if I can’t, then I can’t write addons anymore, but I don’t need every player to support me.
The thing that matters the most is that the reason I chose WoW addons vs. some other high risk alternative to try to make a living is because I enjoy WoW. With the personal drudgery that I have to deal with every single day, the fact that I get to work on WoW addons brings me joy. I didn’t even make a post/tweet/etc. asking for financial help until last May despite I started working on these addons in 2018. I got a few bucks here and there from people willing to look for me on Twitch or acknowledge my patreon/paypal links, but for the most part I just kept trying to make my addon better and keep up with the pace of various milestones between retail, classic, tbc, holidays, patch updates, etc. and really neglected fundraising more than I should have. I’m saying these things because there are enough who have witnessed this and who have taken the time to spend with me to testify that my intentions are and have been pure, honest, and genuine. So, let’s hear it. What do you want?
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Except for the security breaches, the continued malicious overlays and ads, trying to block people like WoWup from doing anything and IGNORING Wowups messages for months prior to the wago stuff.
Lmao okay, yeah right. It really does, especially a critical one that took almost a week to fix. They have plenty every year.
Literally the only reason you use it, we know.
Curious that you didn’t need that in regards to Overwolf, which had more recent controversy and far more people pointing them out as being bad for an addon manager and more… Ah, because Overwolf gave you money.
How many is that, since Soul asks for stats you’ll have to find out how many addon authors there is vs how many you asked and got clear responses from.
They only had a disregard for the addon devs that had a disregard for player IE user complaints. Tit for tat.
Not really, Curseforge had a specific API to work with third parties. Overwolf is the one that hasn’t wanted them there.
Overwolf violated more than anyone else in this situation.
Stop expecting to make monetary gains from an optional hobby that by Blizzards rules cannot be monetized and upload to github or elsewhere, wherever Overwolf doesn’t control.
You seem fine with Overwolf, so WoWUP would actually have to start having some controversy to be anywhere near as dirty as Overwolf including selling data and forcing people to make accounts with them to turn such things off as data collection.
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it will be acold day in hell the day i use a bloatware, spyware and addware like the shaddy overworld that gets way too personal data to sell, time to go back to a few addons and update it manually with a nice addblocker if wowup dies. i hope it wont thanks to wago.
There is a place in hell for shaddy liar goblins like the CEO of overwolf.
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All new third-party addon managers shouldn’t be hosting the addon files themselves, but instead pulling from the releases tab on Github/Gitlab. That way, those “extra steps” cover an entire range of addon managers instead of just one.
For addon devs not using git or some other version control… I dunno wtf you’re doing. As someone who’s been working as a software engineer for 7 years now I can comfortably state that if you’re developing software more complicated than “hello world” and aren’t using version control you’re doing it wrong.
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understand it’s not all about you. many of us don’t like overwolf, think they’re trash, just like you don’t like wowup.
you might be ok with giving overwolf a chance, but many of us addon users aren’t.
and, well frankly, when it comes to what software I install on my computer, it’s more about me than you 
obviously I’m not saying addon devs should feel compelled to use wowup. but I am saying that I won’t be forced into installing overwolf, even if that means I have to find alternatives for the addons I depend on.
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the breadth and width of this chasm of a comparison is gigantic .
Fair. I’ve been on GitHub since last summer and had been using BitBucket prior to that but hesitant to put my releases out there yet. Even with that, there is still the matter of being able to deal with receiving bug reports or feedback from an audience who largely don’t have a Github accounts and might not take the time to sign up to report something. To my knowledge, WoWUP doesn’t provide any of that anyway. I haven’t explored enough around Wago since a year ago so I can’t say for sure what they might have. Either way, it’s pretty easy to get spread very thin for the sake of being able to accept bug reports wherever players are most willing to leave them and respond to more questions. It’s something I have to consider as well.
I used to have an addon up on Curse and bug reporting wasn’t anything to write home about there either. Lots of people just posted about their problems in the comments, complete with modified code with broken formatting.
For the account problem, addon managers could offer integration with Github/Gitlab/Bitbucket etc issue trackers, so submitted issues get mirrored in your repository. Elsewhere in the software world where things are better tooled that’s been the norm for a while.
This is how I feel as well.
Tomcat, let me ask you this: Did WoWUp actually do things the way they did because they wanted to scoff the add-on developers, or did they perhaps do things the way they did to simply provide users a better experience?
From your explanation on your view of WoWUp, it looks like it’s more of a disagreement about how distribution and revenue-sharing was handled/impacted than anything. From my point-of-view, WoWUp is just like any other 3rd-party addon manager that targeted user experience over anything else; that’s not malicious by default.
Look at it from another way:
You have a userbase screaming about how a decision made by a developer is bad. The developer isn’t budging because of their own view, and the player’s experience suffers as a result and leads to even more resentment.
Does this sound familiar at all? Perhaps something like how Blizzard handles user feedback?
That’s what’s happening here.
Of course, you owe us absolutely nothing in the end, but I’m just simply trying to help you better understand things from a user perspective.
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Thank you for explaining your position. I do see better where you’re coming from. You seem to have a similar distrust of WowUp to what I have towards Overwolf.
I used Ajour and now WowUp because I’m looking for a streamlined user experience with the option to remove ads. No overlays. No fancy features. Just let me update my addons with a clean, simple user interface. Ajour offered that while it existed and it was the best experience I had with an addon manager. I’ve disabled wago.io in WowUp until I can pay to remove the ads. The old Twitch app was not very streamlined and I did not like seeing the recommendations for Twitch streams. It was not a good user experience and I was glad to be able to uninstall it and use Ajour while it lasted.
I don’t mind paying a couple bucks a month to disable ads for a better user experience - I didn’t see that last I checked with Overwolf (correct me if I’m wrong, it’s been a while), although wago.io sounds like they will be adding a subscription to disable ads at some point in the future.
I don’t trust advertisers. I will disable ad personalization everwhere I can, and Overwolf doesn’t offer that option at this point in time (although it sounds like that’s coming). I did look at their privacy policy and it’s made some good steps in the right direction like eliminating Newzoo data collection and spelling out what it collects and why. It’s important to me to minimize the amount of my data that’s bought and sold over the web. I know I can’t prevent all companies from tracking and collecting my data, but the more I can limit the amount of data advertisers know about me the better.
It does look like Overwolf has taken some positive steps in the last year or so, but at the same time it’s going to take more and over a longer period of time to overcome that distrust (if they can). There’s a lot of distrust towards Overwolf that will need to be overcome.
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In the end this is all Blizzard’s fault. Because Blizzard refuses to add simple QoL features because they know that if they are lazy someone will develop an addon for it we are forced to rely on addons leaving us all in this situation.
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Given that they’d be faking, they also wouldn’t be telling on themselves either, so what you’re asking for is a reach and then some. You really don’t want to go that route. As someone that has multiple verifiable disabilities, assuming someone is lying just because you think so is beyond ableist.
You know what does suck? Having to miss out on an entire expansion because a critical feature (exclusive fullscreen / focus lock) was removed from the game, causing an inability to play due to interruptions disrupting a very carefully tuned mouse acceleration curve that was created to offset lack of fine motor control in my deformed right arm and the spasms that go along with that.
Or having the base UI changed such that the bags I used to be able to at least glance at with my only good eye (left eye) got moved over into the bottom righthand corner, forcing me to turn my head to see them and ruining fifteen years of muscle memory that I relied on. I didn’t get to enjoy WoW again until the lone Mac dev saw my plea for help and put back the hack he originally had in when the WoW client switched to Metal a few years back on macOS.
My disabilities you ask? Deformed right arm (curved ulna and radius is twisted at a near 90° angle), blind in right eye (no lens because it was removed shortly after birth due to cataract), deaf in right ear, nearsighted in left eye, hearing loss in left ear, acute nystagmus in good eye, compression at L4 and L5 lumbar vertebrae, one leg longer than the other by enough to cause my gait to be such that it looks like I’m partially hopping if I don’t purposely attempt to control it. And sadly as there was no real diagnoses for autism back in the early 80s I didn’t get diagnosed then, but have traits that put me all over the spectrum, several of which aid in tech support but royally screw me over in social situations.
Curseforge has version control. It’d have been obsoleted entirely by Github years ago otherwise. But a great many addon authors will use both CF and GH, oftentimes leaning on GH for more frequent updates if necessary or when CF’s API takes a dive off the bunt (it did this to DBM a few times in the last couple of years, and affected TSM as well).
I really wish Blizzard would just put in an addon manager and let you pull from whichever repository you wanted to from a dropdown selector. The side bonus to that would be that the game would manage the permissions and likely put an end to Agent screwing itself up and causing fake updates just because something got updated.
My big problem with Github is that the end user navigation sucks. Massively. Its front facing parts are clearly designed for developers, not end users, so a lot fewer players will submit bug reports due to the janky layout and navigation. Hell, just pulling a file to download is counterintuitive on GH. If they’d improve the front end then that would be the ideal place to put addons (for the sake of argument I’m ignoring the revenue sharing from OW here).
That’s because the CurseForge side of things, where you actually submit issues, is annoying to use just like Github. Remember, path of least resistance, and both platforms’ bug reporting mechanisms leave a lot to be desired as they’re designed for developer type reporting, not end user interaction.
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Shocked pikachu.
I think you misunderstood my post. I’m not asking for people to prove their disabilities. I was asking that person to prove that it’s usual that people fake their disabilities on this forum or in general. Because that was their claim.