Outlaw Identity & Spec Design

Let blizzard know your opinions…

Personally, I think ‘‘Dreadblades’’ was one huge much needed, steady & reliable ability that had no RnG and well represented the pirate theme. I loved it!

Imho : We 100% need it back.

Blizzard slowly and subtly did a transition removing Dreadblade just to eventually disguise it with a new RnG based ability called : Crackshot…as if Outlaw was a spec that needed more RnG :confused:

We swallowed the pill and wer dealing with it now.
It’s not doing terrible dmgs wise except AoE wise where I think it should 100% be soft capped, not hard capped! (In fact ALL specs should be soft capped)

But the main reason I am not a big fan of Crackshot is its too much RnG where I can sometime throw 7 consecutive BtE…and sometimes 3…
While our dmgs is reasonable, CS & RtB RnG’s on top of each other with Count the odds low procs…is kinda not that fun and too often makes the spec unreliable.
I can live with that. I’m guessing all specs have downtimes…

But Lets remember that Dreadblade was literally doing the same as crackshot : Huge sequence of finishers speeding up CD reductions and keeping the wheel-apm-ratio going on while still having to deal with the RnG of RtB.
Back then (Legion) we simply lacked some finisher dmgs. Other then that, It was doing fine & was a tremendous cool themed ability!

Identity wise :
1-Dreadblades represented the dual-wielding capacity of the Outlaw. Animation of dreadblades could have been a ‘‘blackish curse formed evilish slash’’ animation on our ability swings and/or finishers while CD is up & running!‘’…or whatvr else. But it did honor to the dual wielding.

2-Drop the pistol Blizz : We are dual-wielding alrdy! It Makes no sense to pull a pistol out of nowhere. I am shocked that no employees or anyone on the design team brought that up yet!
You can Keep all the same mechanics and just remove the pistol animation to replace its proc by something else.
Rename pistol shot by ‘‘Exposed weakness’’ or ‘‘Exploit opening’’ where we throw in a off-hand attack or an extra attack that just does what current Pistol shot do.
It would simply do honor to the dual wielding part, fit the spec and make more sense.

The other evolved idea could be to replace the proc by one called ‘‘exposed weakness’’
‘‘Sinister strike’’ created a breach in the enemy armor and/or enhanced our blades with shadow, piercing through armor…basically just proccing what current pistol shot is doing, but using a sword slash. Purple/slash or whatvr Animation welcome there.

My ideas probly aint the best. And its fine.
Thousands of diff ideas could be brought up.
But the big picture is this : What I have suggested is alrdy much more closer to a pirate theme spec! And makes a lot more logic. Right now outlaw has less identity that even combat had back in the days…and this is why combat is gone. Its a huge issue.

Ppl love the dual wielding part.
No outlaw I spoke to so far love the ‘‘pistol’’ part.

Hopefully some ideas will make its way there and be heard : Outlaw is missing identity. Crackshot does not suit it more then the subtlety/vanish part. (Outlaw arent ninjas…)
*See, just renaming vanish with another ability that does something similar would alrdy give the spec more identity and barely requires much time/effort, but does deliver quality to a spec. Worth considering on every aspects of the game design :slight_smile:

7 Likes

Outlaw and Rogue in general needs a dev who fully understands the specs/class be it gameplay wise or theme wise. Turning Outlaw into a Diet Sub was a stupid move, getting rid of shadowstep for another charge of Grapple Hook, which may or may not work it depends on if there’s a flea in the middle of your path, was a bad move.

I would trade our place on the damage meters for a competent dev.

11 Likes

I don’t think Rogues or DH’s even have a dev.

2 Likes

I quite like the pistol, thanks. As a Sea of Thieves enjoyer, sword + flintlock is the most piratey weapon combo. Granted, Outlaw has been largely stripped of most pirate thematics now because of all the complaining, but I digress. The pistol isn’t really the problem with the spec.

I’m definitely game for replacing Crackshot with Dreadblades. It could even keep the self-damage component from Legion and I’d still prefer it over Crackshot. Not that it’s bad, per se, but I’m not a fan of the randomness of how much you can spam BtE in the short window. I like RNG, but I want a DPS cooldown to give me a reliable DPS boost.

I also just wish Ghostly Strike would get removed, either having the damage increase baked into a more interesting spell or just have our whole kit’s damage increased to compensate for the boring button press that it is.

6 Likes

Ghostly Strike should be a choice node of passive and making the current active button more beefy to press.

Dreadblades removal was a mistake because now the spec relies on too much RNG for burst, and CDR with Crackshot.

They probably should make Crackshot/DB a choice node and let it be that way. Crackshot for CDR with a ranged finisher and DB as CDR as a melee combo point builder.

:surfing_woman: :surfing_man:

1 Like

i always thought it’d be cool if outlaw was like a 1h+dagger like you’ve got your main hand and then a parrying dagger

No class has a single dev dedicated to them. All classes are designed by a group. They used to, but they changed that way they designed classes years ago. There was a big blowout back when the head Warlock dev fought tooth and nail against changes that would have actively hurt Warlocks as a whole at that time. He was fired and then they restructured how they designed classes.

1 Like

So the group just didn’t yet decide to put any work into DH or Rogue while making yet another redesign for Ret, which is a spec that worked perfectly 100% fine with no major rotational issues and just a few dead talents?
Sorry but I am not going to believe this, sounds like Blizzard:tm: excuses.

3 Likes

Some have been ringing this bell since Dragonflight.

“New and Improved Blizzard”
… doesn’t care.

4 Likes

They can rework the mastery which is what they tried to do in Cata but failed.

:surfing_woman: :surfing_man:

1 Like

Given people’s feedback, they could remove Slice and Dice and convert that to the mastery, making generators and auto attacks hit harder and increase attack speed. Main Gauche just being a baseline passive without the goofy 30% scaling damage and trying to tie it to Blade Flurry (??). But they won’t because…

Like GloboGym, "[They]'re better than you, and [they] know it.

3 Likes

could use a whole rework imo, when your best stat is versatility your spec is in a very bad place

4 Likes

You quite literally already do this in patches when there isn’t an cantrip weapon worth equipping because Outlaw only requires you to have an actual one hander in your main hand and a dagger in the offhand gives you more instant poison procs because it attacks faster.

1 Like

I don’t mind crackshot, but i’m a big proponent of dreadblades coming back.

Maybe in a different way though.

It could for example work when you press rush and make your next 4/5 sinister strikes fill combo point, or even better, make your next 4/5 finishers act as if you spent double the combo points.

Also, i want hidden opportunity back at 100%, and opportunity to 45%.

2 Likes

has anyone ran into a bug when playing outlaw
like when u use vanish and have two stacks of it up but u use it once and the second stack is gone for some reason

1 Like

Outlaw is the best its ever been and should stay the way it is.

2 Likes

Outlaw could be better IMO it has too many bugs right now.

I would say early DF/Systemlands is the height of modern Outlaw. TWW was one step back but there is time to make it stronger than it was in DF/Systemlands.

:surfing_woman: :surfing_man:

Give us a crackshot alternative and they’ll see the number of outlaw players rising and the number of ppl that plays that talent going straight to the bottom.

5 Likes

Yeah I have a feeling that Outlaw would return to BFA popularity if there were strong alternative builds compared to Crackshot.

:surfing_woman: :surfing_man:

1 Like

I doubt.

The problem with loyalty is you burn a customer twice, they don’t come back.