It’s precisely BECAUSE they haven’t been involved in anything since before Cataclysm and had their character’s identity ruined yet 
Nor have they simply been a side-character pleb to the Alliance characters, so they have an opportunity stand mighty in their own right — For the Horde 
I never said Baine was better. Matter of fact, I said the opposite.
Not sure why you think saying some crappy leader is better than another crappy leader is a legit argument. Neither should rule.
agreed Baine needs to go. they turned him into too much of a push over. like at this point he may as well join the alliance 
and then the time when he betrayed the horde because he wanted to play nice with jaina and anduin
If we’re gonna be out with Baine let’s at least celebrate the moment with a steak dinner.
Touché.
Honestly, this discussion having me go back & review the lore has made me change my mind on the thread anyway — I’d much rather have Jevan Grimtotem lead now
It could present some good stories INVOLVING Magetha (originating from the same tribe and all) – along with following some (but not all) Grimtotem ideologies and perhaps even bring forth some more interesting new narratives to the Tauren overall.
I don’t really have a problem with Baine showing mercy, revenge is, after all, a blade without a handle.
Not quite, as the Scourge are also Undead, but are not of the Forsaken.
I can only remember 2 times, BfA and Shadowlands.
If I remember correctly, he was keeping guard at Thunder Bluff in case Sylvanas had sent a force to attack it.
Pretty sure he said something along the lines of ‘make peace with the Alliance’, not ‘surrender to the Alliance’.
and in SoO. And it was twice in SL if memory serves.
I didn’t say anything about revenge, it would have been justice. She ordered the Grimtotem to kill everyone in Mulgore. You don’t let someone who did that, plus kill the leader of your people, go with a pat on the head.
You make no sense.
He was also captured by centaur and like Mookosh mentioned, I thought it was twice in SL. Like the dark angel thingys caught him, the Jailer tossed him off a cliff, we ran to him, then the Jailer captured him again while we escaped from the Maw.
You’re remembering incorrectly. The reason given was he was “too heartbroken” to show up.
Talanji asked Sylvanas if she was going to have Zandalari’s back.
Sylvanas said of course.
Nathanos said the Alliance was near victory in this war.
Baine said then we should negotiate.
It’s pretty damn clear to anyone without a bias what he meant, especially if you follow the flow of the conversation.
I think they misinterpretted what you were originally saying, believing you were implying that the Scourge are Forsaken; when in reality you were pointing out Baine’s foolish perception that all undead are Forsaken, when such isn’t really the case.
She was banished, wasn’t that justice? I guess that one’s open to interpretation.
You said that undead = Forsaken, but the Forsaken are not the only undead.
If you’re talking about that time in DF with the centaurs, I pretty sure Baine wasn’t a prisoner. If you’re talking about his interactions with centaurs before that, we didn’t rescue him.
That capture by the Jailer also happened to Jaina, Anduin and Thrall. It’s a little harsh blaming Baine for being captured the second time by the Jailer when we basically abandoned them all during our escape.
You’re remembering incorrectly. The reason given was he was ordered there by Saurfang to defend Thunder Bluff in case Sylvanas launched a counterattack.
Negotiate a treaty does not mean surrender.
No Greymarc, they were saying that’s how they saw BAINE’S perspective of them — Not Tovi’s own perspective.
Simple misunderstanding between the both of you. 
On this matter, you guys actually agree with one another that not all Undead = Forsaken.
replacing baine with magetha wont make blizzard do anything meaningful with the tauren, since even baines big story with the centaur in df quickly got derailed into a night elf story
Not surprising Man sometimes I forget that Tauren are even a race in the game, because of how obsolete & insignificant they are.
The Hightotem Tauren + Feltotem Tauren at least had some oomph in their stories & significant characters.
I want to do Siege of Stormwind first. Trolls missed out on the first one.
Turalyon. Then Alleria. Then the Horde can be villain batted again.
No because now she has an opportunity to do it again.
No I didn’t. Read it again.
No. I’m talking about when Cairne was still alive.
No I’m not. It’s said in game that he’s too heartbroken to show up.
Mayla was the one sent to TB with the task to defend it.
You just cut out every thing else I said to be right.
We had just burned down the tree. We plagued all the Alliance (and Horde) troops in Lordaeron that couldn’t run fast enough. The Zandalari destroyed a huge chunk of the Alliance fleet. The Alliance just killed the Zandalari king and the Horde ran down Jaina and tried to kill her.
Genn is pissed. Jaina is pissed. Tyrande is really pissed. Hell, even Anduin at that point realized the Horde was completely unhinged. The only negotiation that would have happened would have been the Horde’s surrender.
Idk, if we can find the rock that killed Anduin’s mom, it should be the new Warchief.
Image or gif isn’t loading for me. 