this is not a new game, also with the massive boosts in leveling in classic+tbc, and then shop boosts, and the insane amount of gdkp’s that are based on pure buyers in greens/blue getting BIS, i don’t think you’re in any position to talk about the word “effort” in current classic wow
I have been informed that I misstated the numbers in a different thread. It was apparently 11.5 million subscribers before RDF then an additional 0.5m before the first quarterly decline and everything fell apart.
vanilla never had 10 million, wow reached 10 million during TBC
500,000 subscribers gained after RDF was implemented, up to cataclysm launch. drop in subs proceeded after cata launch.
patch 3.3 to cata launch was a whole year, wotlk was a 2 year long expansion, with steady growth throughout. they dropped 500,000 in the first quarter after cata classic launched. we all know the rest, point being, the game steadily rose after RDF as it did before it.
not because of RDF.
which includes LFG tool
LFG retail-esque tool is as anti-social as RDF is
blizzard fundamentally changing the game constantly did that.
That sounds about right. I don’t have the graphs and dates and times when patch content was implemented, but wrath was peaking right at or a little after RDF was put into the game. Shortly after, it fell, and fell hard. Especially when LFR was implemented in the next expansion.
Blizzard learned the hard way that completely taking the social aspect out of the highest form of end game does more to kill their game than anything else.
Who woulda thought?
so you think if a game didn’t release any new content for 1year it can contain the same amount of players? are people this dumb?? ofc game would’ve dropped in numbers even if blizzard never released the RDF, and tbh since apparently you people was never in wow during 2010 and just assume things! let me tell you that non raised a finger against RDF at 2010, None.
Did TBC have RDF? Pretty sure it didn’t. And thats the topic of discussion.
You actually believe those 500k subscribers subscribed because RDF was put into the game? If you do, I have a piece of beach front property in Montana to sell you.
You’re asking for arguments aside from convenience regarding a feature thats sole purpose is convenience. Kinda dumb
And that’s why the system is bad and shouldn’t be put into the classic version of the game. If all the RDF enjoyers can come up with is that its convenient, then that’s not a good reason to put this feature into the game.
Again, sugary and processed foods may be delicious, but it’s certainly not good for the longevity and health of your body.
dont assume my toxicity, you go around assuming everybody’s toxicity?
removing RDF didn’t improve your social experience, keeping it in wouldn’t have diminished it as daddy blizzard would have you believe, they just want you in the game longer, hence 8000+ queue to log in with no solution to sort out server capacities and balances.
i think anti-rdf arguments come from a group of entitled trolls unwilling to let others play how they did in og wrath, forcing everyone else to play how the trolls want them to, trolls wont quit without RDF, og wrath players or returning players to the franchise will, but not only for that reason alone; blizzard has fumbled classic to the best of their ability, RDF is just one of their fumblings.
it only grew until cataclysm’s fundamental changes drove off a large chunk of what the entire wotlk retained from vanilla and tbc combined.
socializing in end game happens in discord, not in dungeons.
stay on topic to your own thread.
Oh yes, the forums of 2010 were all just peaches and roses. C’mon now.
Though in 2010 people were much more worried about how BGs had fallen apart, and yes, those us from the pre-xrealm and even pre-queue-anywhere days could see and did post about how increasingly low effort, low commitment queuing had decayed the BG PvP play quality and community. And this is happening again now.
What does this mean lmao and you wanna call other people trolls? Please 
Not falling for it.
subscriber growth didnt decrease after RDF was implemented, it continued at the same rate up until cata
The fact is, no one here has any numbers or real proof to support either argument when it comes to what the player base wants/subs for. I’m sorry but it’s such a silly thing to argue about when it’s all made up and the numbers don’t matter 
The only thing we know for sure is as of right now Blizzard made the choice to not put a RDF into Classic.
You saying you can find a group in 10 mins at 1am pst in the 2nd week of a launch when everyone is still grinding heroics for their pre bis is not convincing either. Lets see how easy it is for you to get it at 1am pst a month from now. RDF isnt needed the first month of a launch because people are naturally all going to be doing dungeons anyway.
Except, anti rdfers are the vocal minority.
2 Likes
the fact is OP stated that RDF contributed to retails loss of subscribers, which they dont have proof of, and on the contrary there is evidence to suggest the opposite of what they said.
they matter if OP says RDF caused a loss of subscribers during OG WOTLK
and the reason they did that? to “protect social experience”
what social experience have they protected for you so far?
1 Like
I think that pro-dungeon finder arguments mostly just boil down to:
- “Forming groups is an irrelevant part of the game I want to see replaced with a button”
- “The community social aspect is already damaged, so there’s nothing to save”
- “I’d rather teleport everywhere instantly than flying in a straight line to the dungeon”
- “I don’t want/care for interaction in my group content”
- “It takes HOURS to do dungeons without dungeon finder” (hilariously untrue)
- “We NEED dungeon finder because people on dead realms can’t run content!” (even though those people statistically make up an extremely small fraction of the playerbase)
Couple I’ve missed, but that’s off the top of my head. Only the last one has any real merit, though it’s ridiculously shoddy. Second to last one is a straight up exaggeration/lie. And all the others just demonstrate that these players want something completely different than we (anti-dungeon finder) do.
To be fair and play devil’s advocate though, there is one benefit that I see dungeon finder providing. One thing that I think it genuinely improved is the ease with which people could run unpopular dungeons. Dungeon finder gave an additional reward for people who queued up for randoms and didn’t discriminate against dungeons they disliked, which meant that the people queueing for specific dungeons like the Occulus/Violet Hold/Culling of Stratholme would have a larger pool of people to run with. This is something that I don’t see the new LFG tool doing, even though I like the LFG tool far more than dungeon finder. Personally, I really dislike the mentality of saying “X dungeon is trash” and making it extremely difficult for others to run it if they happened to need that dungeon.
The benefits don’t outweigh the costs though. It’s a minor upgrade for one small aspect of dungeon runs, and that aspect loses its relevance very quickly once we get into raids. I hope we never see dungeon finder in any Classic version of WoW, even in Cataclysm and beyond.
1 Like
That I can agree with. If the population dies, and blizzard refuses to mitigate that with server merges, then a cross-server LFG might be a good solution. But if no one wants to do heroics at 1am on any server, it doesn’t really fix anything 
Right now on retail queues for RDF can be 30+ minutes for DPS
All this insinuation without a shred of evidence to back it up, all also spouted by the other anti-LFD players who also couldn’t show evidence to back it up, and yet there has been evidence in all of the post has shown the opposite, you all just choose to ignore it, and no I am not going to re-post it just so you can ignore it again.
All you have is assumptions, Even GS said in the post I re-posted a few times now, and this was in Cata, that LFD was a success and they even used and enjoyed it, that two years after its implementation.
All this RFD players complain is also just gossip and assumptions purely because they don’t agree with you, just like the rest you are branding people as a way to dismiss them.
1am Where? lol I find myself playing at 3am and then grouping with Americans because I am an Aussie, it’s always prime hours somewhere.
Incorrect. Forming groups shouldnt be the content. The dungeon should be.
This is partially true. Weve seen in vanilla and tbc how the grouping plays out. As well as how little social interaction actually occurs in the manually formed groups today.
As opposed to people saying “people afk in the city” instead we are afking on a flight path. There is no immersion to flying to a dungeon in a 15 year old game no matter how hard you try to convince someone that there is.
In a pug you’re a means to an end and most people are there for personal benefits, not to hang out with you. Thats pretty common sense.
You’re making this one up. People complain that it can take hours to find groups (obviously not in the first couple weeks of an expansion) and this is true in many cases. The dungeon itself takes less time than forming groups often times.
Doesnt make them any less important than those on megaservers.
1 Like