Okay and? There is a natural progression of gearing. Leveling gear, normal/heroic dungeon gear, pvp gear/M+/raiding gear. If you don’t like group content, I feel for you, I’m always down for more content, but every form of gear progression has a soft cap. Where does your progression stop if you can just keep on getting better and better gear via solo content?
In what way does it matter to you if it does or does not stop?
Because all the group content has a gear cap. Do you want solo players to just be able to progress forever, everyone else be damned?
I don’t think you have to NEVER join a group to be considered a solo player. You’re saying someone who hits up group finder once a week for the world boss isn’t a solo player?
Someone that regularly participate in group content?
I only hit up a raid twice a week.
Am I still a raider?
Citation required. Last time I checked they do care. Because if they feel forced to run more content for loot to get world first then they do care as there are only so many hours in a day. So if you plan on using them as an example I request citation.
How does one one players progression effect another, if they end at the same place?
Seems to me like we’ve come right back to … I don’t want you to have what I have, because you didn’t suffer through what I did to get it.
So … it’s all about the incentive, not the content which isn’t fun enough to bother doing. Pretty big problem. Consider, if mythic raiding, didn’t offer the best gear in the game … but instead … no gear rewards at all, would anyone do it?
lol no. Here’s the thing. I do all the same content all the solo players do, in addition to M+ and raiding. The gear you get for solo content, is more than sufficient for solo content. The gear you get for solo content is also sufficient for starting normal raiding and +6 - +9 in M+. I dunno about rated pvp, because I don’t care about rated pvp.
I don’t care if you get the same gear I have. The game has always been about effort = reward. I am putting in more effort than you, thus I get a better reward. If you want to progress and get better gear, the only person stopping you, is you.
And as I said earlier, what’s equal is not always fair and what’s fair is not always equal. The game could give us all equal amounts of gear for doing whatever we wanted. That would definitely be equal. But would it be fair? No, it would not. The solo content is much easier and takes much less time.
And again, I do all the solo content + the group content.
Nope. And if your come back is now “Well we don’t get rewarded for our solo content.”, then I’m sorry but you do. You just don’t like the gear cap for solo players is lower than players who put in more effort than you do.
I have better gear than you do. By far.
You keep talking to me like i’m the player type we are talking about.
This isn’t about me.
If you remove the gear reward from M+ and raiding, and just give away max level items to everyone just for logging on then what is the power progression path for players?
You seem to have a strong misunderstanding of game design and what motivates players. Suggestions like this if implemented would kill the game overnight.
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You seem to think your hyperbole is valuable discourse. Perhaps we have … different viewpoints and values. hrm
Keep dodging any and all argument that invalidates what you’re saying, that definitely means you’re right.
If I don’t have an advantage, I don’t engage. It’s pretty simple really.
Sure, sure, whatever you say.
Sounds perfectly reasonable.
I hope they give you a path way to the highest loot ilvls each tier.
It takes absolutely nothing away from me.
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i can only speak for myself but gear means skill. . or it used to be. that’s why raider io was a thing, we had to know who was capable and who isn’t.
We couldn’t tell by actual gear… cause of how inflated it was… now we can kinda.
Except that players have and do play without a progression path.
Since the earliest days of video games, people have played without character / player gear progression.
They still do today - once all bis items are acquired, people still continue to play.
I think it has more to do with invalidating their content. While I agree that is a sad reason I think it stems more from fear of losing said content. If you can get heroic raiding gear from grinding world quests lets say… will the pool of players willing to do heroic raiding dwindle? I would say that is a realistic possibility. The vast majority of players will likely take the path of least resistance even at the expense of fun.
This is where I disagree - why would they play a game if it’s not fun?
Plenty of people raid well past the point of having maxed out their gear at that difficulties ilvl. There’s still parses, achievements, smog, mounts, and just the simple act of playing as a team to down bosses.
Ya, I dunno who you raid with, but my guild quickly went from raidlogging, to not even loggin in anymore. They will all pop back up two weeks before the next tier drops.
https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/2588097-get-rid-of-valor-points-and-just-bring-back-TF-and-WF?p=53012467&viewfull=1#post53012467
I haven’t really seen a better reply to your post than this guy.
The crux of the matter is, if you have to bribe your players to do content with rewards, your content quality needs work.
I’ve heard it a million times. The content … eh, I don’t actually like it that much. I just want the gear, so I suffer through it.