My guild ‘Ad Nauseam’ downed Rag on Tuesday night for the second time since classic release. We however downed him this time in just 1 phase. We had 40 players present.
P.S. we downed Onyxia right before doing MC on Tuesday as well. 38 players present.
your entire argument is subjective to what difficulty is. Just because you where “Good” at games as a kid doesnt mean that was the norm. there are way more people playing games today then when Super Mario 3 came out. Also the movie The Wizard was terrible and most people I knew never watched it. So your saying the mass use of the internet and adding mechanics, more buttons on controllers, size of games, etc have no impact on games whatsoever? weird how that works maybe I was afk the last 20 years and we still playing games with a single joystick and 1 button?
Grouping up from the start, getting away from the initial rush of people in the starting zones to kill mobs as fast as you can with AoE meta… Marathon it for 3-4 days only sleeping 3-4 hours a day, and it is possible. Insanely difficult, and decidedly unhealthy, but possible. There is a reason why we say that players in Vanilla are not the same as players today.
Its honored for water, revered for re-usable water.
Patch 1.11 changes.
ahhh thanks for that
Ok well…that’s my opinion and I’m entitled to it. I think as classic stays classic people will find ways to min max and challenge themselves by exploiting mechanics to the pixel.
Either they will try to do this by 20 manning bosses or doing it with less and less gear.
That’s where I think this all goes. We will see how fast naxx gets cleared. That instance was the pinnacle of vanilla raids.
Maybe during patch day when you play the forums… 
I just cannot find any reason to log into BfA, but cannot wait to get logged into Classic again.
How is it subjective when I am giving you concrete examples of the video game industry past and present? Discussing why there has a been a current fad for more difficult games, especially among older players.
You are being subjective when you say things like:
How about some actual facts? Like the fact it debued at #5 and was considered a commercial success by the industry. Like actually read some articles discussing these things rather than just giving me your personal anecdotes.
I can do the opposite: I watched it, and so did all my friends, so I’m right.
Instead, I am referring to actual articles that discuss the success of the film and it’s impact, as well as commonly known facts about the video game industry. If you are too lazy to google stuff, that’s on you.
Next you will be telling me that no one bought or read Nintendo Power.
The games have become shorter and the controls have become simpler.
That was the whole point of the Wii Sucess: They catered games toward a casual audience. Fornight is geared toward a casual audience.
Mechanics also became easier, such as an increased amount of save points, health regen items, or having you respawn after death right after the boss dies. Bioshock is good example of a game that does this, but not others. Even Retail WoW is an example of this as they have worked to simply rotations, classes, and what needs to be done, all in the name of convenience.
You then have games like Sekiro that provide a real challenge and the biggest request being made by the new generation of players is an EASY MODE. People are still requesting easy modes for cuphead and darksouls as well.
The current generation of players is inferior to the previous generation and hides from challenge.
If you want to bring it back to Vanilla, the current generation even shows it here.
As people have said, people used to go to dungeons when as soon as they could, didn’t have the huge fear of wipes that exists today, and accepted having long hours in a dungeon or raid. In contrast, the current generation of players is scared to enter something like deamines unless they are level 20s because the thought of actually wiping and having some difficulty is the last thing they want.
Instead, the current generation of players would rather brain-dead AOE farm in a raid group until 60 because it is fast and provides virtually no challenge.
I have given you now plenty of non-subjective examples now demonstrating to you that the older generation of players not only were able to handle difficult games, they are able to handle difficulty better than the current generation.
Fact is retail is more difficult than anything you can find in vanilla/classic.
False.
The only things more difficult are mythic raids and dungeons beyond level 0, which the vast majority of retail players avoid.
Instead, they stick to simple content like world quests and LFR.
And most classic players avoid raids, hell most people aren’t even 40 yet.
But you can’t just dismiss mythic raiding, that is a major reason people stay playing retail.
And if a guild walked into Uldir right now with a mix of 120s in quest gear, some dungeon gear, and < 120s (igoring they cant zone in) Uldir would curb stomp them.
So not really a great comparison.
MC simpliy should not have been open at launch
as for many of you guys using the word “challenge” stop it, just stop
this isn’t about a challenge, this is nostalgia … this is curated content, playable art like in a museum … fun OF COURSE but the mission here is to preserve something
this isn’t about making some challenge that people understand in 2019 terms
and the challenge in vanilla wow was always finding and holding together enough people to get resist gear and accomplish 40 man raids
it wasn’t always about the encounter
When the overwhelming majority of players don’t do mythic raiding, I think you kinda can. It’s around 10% of the playerbase if you assume only 1 million people play retail. If you think there are more than a million retail players, then the amount do mythic raiding is even lower than 10%.
It’s hard to say that most people are playing retail due to mythic when it’s less than 10%.
That was changed in patch 1.11 so it wasn’t consumable so only one player needed to have one for all of the runes and I believe it was just to spawn Domo.
'twas a different, and more challenging version of the game, good sir!
I think that 1.12 was, perhaps, the wrong choice for the initial launch. New talents, class buffs, and gear buffs, definitely makes things a little easier than it was at the start. Combine that with people having a better understanding of WoW, and WoW mechanics, and things aren’t as hard.
Classic is still fun, and I think, perhaps, AQ40 and Naxx might be a little harder, but we will see.
By the way, I’ve decided that I don’t like that Blizzard chose 1.12 as their launch patch, but I think I understand their reasoning. A lot of fixes (bugs and balance) happened in the time between 1.0 and 1.12. Trying to mash them all together into a 1.0 version of the game would have been very, very difficult. Far easier for them to just go with 1.12, and it provides a more consistent experience for us.
Well, some people are bad.
Even LFR has wipes, with some end bosses frequently going to 5+ determination stacks.
You only got this at Revered, otherwise you only needed Honored for the consumable version, which is very easy to grind to considering you start out at Neutral.
This is like being surprised that the Vulcan Raven fight that took you three hours back in the day only takes five minutes after you’ve done it a few times.
How insane is that right? The more you do something, the better you get at it. Crazy talk!
It is my understanding that some/all private servers retuned the early raids to bring the difficulty up since they too were using the 1.12 client. Unfortunately Blizzard choose not to do that for Classic.