Oh yeah dude, you totally needed skill to hit level 10 in Vanilla.
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Also after checking a few videos it seems using consumables and other buffs in early Vanilla hadn’t been a thing most raids bothered with. So minus all those buffs. buffs that stack even would make the power gap seem that much larger.
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Of course but increased time changes everything from bis to guild dynamics.
Its not that Classic is all that different from Vanilla, we are just way better then before. APES and other guilds had been practicing and strategizing for years trying to take down raids. Im sure BWL and beyond will still be difficult. Dont under or over estimate it.
Every bit helps. I’m not saying if Blizzard had done a true ‘progression content’ release; including patch releases. That Rag would still be undefeated. - My guess is probably would have just needed more 50-55 levels in the raid.
I mention the patches because people seem to forget that this is built on 1.12.1’s patch level. I figure, though, it makes up maybe 10% of why content is easier in Classic than in Vanilla; most of the difference comes from experience and knowledge of the classes.
Heck, just taking my Paladin as an example of how far I’ve, personally, come. I never would have put Spirit-anything gear on him as Ret, I wouldn’t be using BoW, Judging SoW, or waiting 5 seconds to cast (I’d be judging on CD); I’d be OOM after every single fight.
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Have we not been over this? Like, in multiple threads?
This is the patch 1.12. Rag is nerfed significantly from release to 1.12, and many specs are buffed. On top of that, people already know everything there is to know about the game.
That’s probably because there are several times more players on a server than in vanilla.
Ummmm what does any of that have to do with what I said?
That’s probably the fairest assumption I’ve seen so far. I’m sure we could crunch all the numbers and pin down whether 10% is too high or too low by about 5% or so, but it definitely isn’t the 85%-95% reason some posters are making it out to be.
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He hasn’t been, unless you think Sons not despawning (a bug), his knockback being unable to hit melee (a bug), and his lava eruptions going off inconsistently to the point some pulls wouldn’t see any (a bug), all being fixed are “nerfs” then OK…
Outside of Fury and Frost, not really no. Feral and Subtlety and Beast Mastery buffs aren’t really relevant to the current raiding content at all.
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And they’re nerfed fights with each death giving you more damage and more health to help people kill them. So they’re not the same difficulty and are all easier than their original incarnation.
There’s way different reasons why this was harder back then. And it’s not because people are “better”, a rogue mid combat vanish equipped a full set of FR gear to deal with the adds…You’re re telling me that’s not an advanced tactic? Come on.
It’s because rag is in a nerfed state, and we have 1.12 talents and max debuff slots. These are INSANE buffs to class power.
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Yeah, that 30 DPS coming from four applications of Deep Wounds is why Rag is easy!
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Deep wound isn’t even a primary buff slot… But ok. Keep pretending that warriors didn’t receive insane power spikes by 1.12.
What are you even coming back at me with? They misprogrammed ragnaros?
They really, really were. Progression guilds that actually cared all that much broke bank on resist pots.
You think your pre-pots now are expensive? You didn’t see FR/SR resist pot gouging. I wasn’t even raiding at the time and that stuff got insane.
Our guild used to pre raid go into UBRS to mind control the mob that gave the fire resist buff if I remember correctly.
Was a HUGE PITA.
Yeah and the really crazy ones had benchwarmers on standby to summon back and forth to do that every attempt.
I feel like I need to post the Spongebob meme about this not being ordinary stupid, but ADVANCED stupid. Seriously, it sounds fancy and useful but it is absolutely stupid because it assumes you’re all going to be taking insane amounts of unhealable fire damage and Tanks won’t be picking up threat…
It is the equivalent of wearing +Healing gear on a Bear Druid on the off chance your own Healers forget to top you off that way you can pop out, drop a fat HT on yourself, and keep going… its moronic and gimps your purpose and adds unnecessary problems to your raid.
No he isn’t.
Which only account for Fury and Frost DPS increases, but are simply not enough by themselves by a longshot to get the numbers players are pulling.
This isn’t relevant right now at all. We don’t have Thunderfury eating two slots, no Nightfall procs, and elementals can’t get diseased from Gift of Arthas. The 8 extra slots are literally filed with Corruptions that amount to barely 3% of the Warlocks’ DPS.
No. You know what IS an insane buff to performance? Not popping Vanish to throw in FR gear, actually maintaining Slice and Dice, and not wasting Energy and CP on friggin’ FEINT
Holy crap yes please! Screw the critical strike bonus, make Mages have essentially Holy Nova but WAY WAY BETTER.
Resist pots. Yeah this is why Vanilla players were just not the most well informed bunch. We absolutely had high standards… it just that our standards were asinine and pointless.
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Onyxia was nerfed in Vanilla’s lifecycle to make her easier to kill for raiders just beginning on that level of content. Think catch-up mechanics.
Since we are on the 1.12 patch, all boss nerfs are live. They’re quite literally the easiest versions of them that have ever existed since players have complete talent trees, upgraded gear, and we’re fighting nerfed bosses.
https://classic.warcraftlogs.com/reports/hyF7tM1QH9RBZcXW#fight=51&type=auras&ability=17543
Yeah, soooo pointless.
About the upgraded gear.
Ya. I worry about Naxx. Because that was the ‘content release’ patch that saw a revamp of the Grand Marshal and Warlord (or was it High Warlord?) gear to be “in line” with Naxx gear.
So…basically, if you can hit Rank 14, you can grab your ‘top-tier’ armor and weapons. Then wait until what ever phase Naxx is released in, and immediately go in with gear that, stat-wise, will be on par with gear that drops from the very raid you’re going into.
'>_<
NOTE: I’m pretty sure the Rank 14 gear came out before Naxx, and they just buffed it to be ‘on par’ with the Naxx gear.