Sure, but why does that matter?
It’s not anecdotal. It’s a fact that there were players just as competent in vanilla as there are in modern WoW.
Maybe less, maybe more. That’s not my point. My point is that competent players existed and it still wasn’t easy to just blow through the content.
Do you by any chance mean the exploit that Blizzard said they would be banning and removing the items gained by the people exploiting it to that degree?
They were also brand new to not only WoW but for the vast majority of people MMOs in general, their computers were for lack of a better term garbage and optimization and itemization were almost non existent. Meanwhile the private server community has been practicing this set up, the leveling routes, the raiding, the dungeons, even every single item, there’s a guide for every single quest that can be found by searching even just the name of the quest, most of the time you don’t even have to specify it’s a WoW quest.
Just go search “Lost in Battle” on Google, don’t even specify “WoW Lost in Battle” or “WoW Vanilla Lost in Battle” and you’ll see text guides, forum guides, video guides all on the WoW quest, I had to go down to page 2 in Google in order to find something not even WoW related.
It is something to chuckle at, until you realize that someone recently did a BC Space Race Deity Victory on Civ 4 by building lots of wonders all over the place.
No, players aren’t stupid. That’s why they can think of new tricks over the course of 15 years.
But it’s not about tricks. Resource management mattered more then than now apparently.
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Almost as though people have discovered a few ways to shorten boss fights, making resource management less of a pressing need . . .
Because – wait for it – people have come up with new tricks!
You do know that it’s already a fact that the patch they are based on is a patch of nerfed content, right?
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Yes, patch 1.12 specifically shut off the brain of every single person playing WoW, which meant they were constitutionally incapable of learning anything after that point . . .
isn’t it more about what patch we’re on rather than knowledge? The best people in the world in 2004 are probably still playing better than I am now.
And are they still playing the exact same way, or have they changed and improved their game over time?
It is nerfed content.
People in this thread have some overwhelming belief that peoples ‘knowledge of the game’ or mechanical prowess has gotten better over 15 years of the game but the way mechanics work in boss fights back then versus now is exactly the same - it’s just easier
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I know this is a little long but please take a second to read it. There is a serious risk of cascading effects removing content from the game, essentially making every raid catch up raid like retail, and removing many of the great features and need for community we love about vanilla and classic.
Anyways this quote is true with the simpler mechanics, etc. But all meaningful progression has been removed as well because of the significantly buffed classes, talents, etc. that have happened by by 1.12. It should also be noted that almost every major encounter has been hotfixed and nerfed multiple times at least. Especially Ragnaros, Magmadar, and Majordomo I believe. The same is true for BWL and AQ. Additionally the debuff limit has been doubled and that affects every encounter.
The encounters were never going to be mechanically hard for any modern players but people are mad that there is no progression at all and it’s entirely possible to have progression without changing the design of the game, only aaccounting for the changes… By starting on 1.12 but not buffing HP, damage, etc. on the raid encounters to account for all the class buffs and raid encounter nerfs, it does so much more than simply make the first couple raids a cake walk. It makes the entire 60 content pointless as well because there’s no need for the gear. You can just skip it. It makes the profession content pointless for people that like that stuff because you don’t need it. It’s really bad for the health of the game and going to hurt the health of the community in the long run.
They don’t have to make these encounters like Mythic encounters,and they can’t without completely reworking them. They are always going to be mechanically easy. But they could have increased HP and damage on both attacks and abilities in order to make it a little bit more of a gear check. Give people a reason to farm resistance stuff, give the profession people a sense of progession, and make you feel good about doing the encounters. Once again, it was never going to make it very difficult for even casual people. You were sill going to be able to progress if you waned to…but this way, you would have VIABLE MEANINGFUL PROGRESSION across the board.
This refusal to fix these raids are going to snowball the issues. Right now professions, level 60 dungeons, resistance farming, etc. have been removed from the game but with BWL being similarly encounter nerfed and class buffed into the ground, MC is going to become obsolete as well because you don’t need to do it. You can skip straight to BWL encounters. This goes against the spirit of Classic and Vanilla. Where every raid has meaning until the end. No more catch up. Coming late to the game? No worries about missing content. You are going to get to do MC and BWL because you need to do them in order. Those are all amazing features and that entire portion of the game among everything else is going to be gone if this isn’t fixed for the second raid. You will be able to skip MC and Onyxia and doing them will become meaningless. Just like you can skip ALL of the level 60 content now. Professions, etc. will remain pointless.
#nochanges was about maintaining the spirit of the game. Leaving all the 1.12 nerfs to enconters and buffs to classes without doing something to adjust for this is going to make things meaningless and remove a large portion of the content from the game as we go. These encounters can be buffed in a way to require tighter dps and gear checks (hp and damage) in ways that don’t change the encounter design or make them even that difficult really - just meaningful. And that’s wall that matters.
Based on their silence on this and the free retail accounts, I’m starting to think they obviously knew this going in (because myself and many others mentioned it repeatedly in the feedback) and have left it unaddressed intentionally.
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Here’s an idea, tell your guild to only use the keyboard to move, (no strafe re-binds) Click on spells and abilities with the mouse and have hunters leave aspect of the pact on while trying to clear trash. If that doesn’t replicate the “difficulty” nothing will.
- Additionally healers can’t down rank spells, because they just earned those new spells and they are obviously BETTER.
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well we got a watered down wet noodle version of wow and we are better gamers then back then so thats that.
even tho classic wow is easy already been done its still more fun then a mario speed run dungeon for a rng lootbox at the end of the week.
Sorry mate, they stealth nerfed everything by atleast 10% to appease the players.
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exactly lol, you needed fire resist in every slot among other buffs to even say hello.
There is a blizcon video that explains exactly what they do and do not have. while they have logs for all the changes they do not have the assets those logs reference. they had to go into a deep off site back up location and were only able to recover the 1.12 back up as part of another backup that happened to have in when that back up was backed up. “a back up of a back up inside a back up”
The also said they have data a little bit before.
Assuming a TBC prestine server came out next They should have have everything they need to drop it in its launch state.
However there was also a statment/ question of, do they release everything exactly as it was, bugs and imperfections that were later fixed or improved? “sorry, we know your class was fixed 6 months after the release and while we know how to fix it now you will just have to sit there on a broken under tuned class for 6 months.”
They wanted to used the best version of what they had.
in any case changes/ class improvements still makes rag going down easier if those improvements helped get them get leveled faster. the first 2 raid’s main challenge to the speed run kills was getting high enough level to even attempt it.
and another thing, wouldn’t being lower lvl be an advantage? the boss’s required hit cap is not going to change. they are always considered a certain level above the player’s level not a certain lvl above the level cap.
so hit gear should in theory be more effective at a lower level than at max lvl. that should also be the same for all stats. so bis gear at max lvl would be weaker than if worn at the lowest lvl you could enter the instance 
Hard to believe a company doesn’t have data from 2004 or 2005…
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I mean considering people been playing private servers waiting for this moment again for 13+ years and know exactly what they’re doing is kinda like comparing someone playing mario for the first time vs. a speed runner.
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