then you haven’t bothered to read any of the 532432 posts about why people don’t like covenants.
as for me, I am a CE raider on weeknights, and a m+ player on weekends.
My covenant choice can only be good for one of those, and that is just bad game design.
in a game where they try so hard to push us into other activities, now they’re hobbling us from being able to fully enjoy those?
Additionally, I have to choose the covenant for one spec, nevermind that the other covenant is better for another spec I might want to play.
the whole thing is dumb.
but don’t worry, this thread, like every other thread, will be fully of Joe Casual who can barely scrape out AOTC by the end of the tier here telling us all why covenants are so great.
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because many of us are all to aware of how unbalanced borrowed power mechanics can be. on paper… most of my friends, myself included, like the idea of how the covenants are built and what they have to offer. the problem is the difficulty in changing them once you pick. I like to do arena, M+, and even raid at times. I like the freedom to chose what will work for w/e it is i’m doing. It’s not about min/maxing, but the freedom to try new stuff.
Can you imagine getting a legendary and then being stuck with it for a few days or weeks because you simply wanted to try it out? How about azerite traits? What if you could only swp them once a week? As it stands, swapping looks to be difficult and thats the issue.
couldn’t be further from the truth. as the game has aged, the enjoyment has come from the freedom to swap specs, abilities, traits, gear, talents, etc. THAT has been a huge upside in the game. Being stuck on one spec or being unable to quickly change things doesn’t make the game better. the ability to chose a tool for the task at hand is what makes wow amazing.
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no, that’s ok.
Covenants are going to be bad for the game, for anyone who plays the game at a higher level than LFR.
I DO see why those players will like them.
unfortunately, they can’t - or won’t - see why people who like to do multiple things (raid, pvp, m+, multiple classes) at more than a causal level won’t, so we get threads full of
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No, I don’t use Icy Veins - that site is targeted towards and funded by more casual players than I, yes I use addons mostly to show cooldown and DoT timers, no I don’t use a rotation helper wtf?
And if you genuinely think that is the difference between a good player and a bad player, you are saying we would perform equally if I either had none of those things or you had all of those things.
The amount of times people try and represent “casuals” but are really just elitists that play the game differently than raiders is pretty cringe. you can’t call yourself a casual if someone who doesn’t even play near you min/maxing gets you worked up to the point that you can’t help but enter a thread and generalize about an entire scene in this game. don’t act surprise when you get called out for it, just like Mr “old Man Yells At Cloud” Paladin over there
Covenants are just like picking a class.
If people cared about min maxing so much they would want people to be able to freely change classes. Using the same logic they use for covenants, classes should be able to freely changed.
All this talk about how they want to be the best they can, even if they dont do the hardest stuff. Im sure all those outlaws wished they could match an arms in raids, and Im sure all those arms warrior wished they could match outlaws in mythic plus.
But oh nos you class might not be good at everyday, despite you doing all the content.
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Except min/maxing is about getting the most out of your class, so that doesn’t really make any sense?
Min/maxing is not wanting tourny realm access to everything.
Sup with all these people making up their own definitions for things and then arguing against them as if anyone is actually saying it lmao
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THen people come back with but tier and trinks were borrowed power.
My usual response to that lately has been .
The difference between tier sets/ trinks and the current borrowed power systems is. Before your class felt complete and all the tier/trinks did was add another layer of flavor like a buff or maybe the ability to do a long stand still cast on the move . So they were more like icing on the cake.
The current borrowed powers (Legion on) are like half the ingredients to make a cake. With our characters being the dry and borrowed being the wet.
You can’t have a complete cake with just the dry ingredients.
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My advice:
If you don’t have an invested position and you’re just excited for something that looks cool, stay off the forums. The opinions of the forums are always bad and toxic. Nobody is going to answer your question without pushing their agenda. If you’re excited, be excited. Don’t let this cesspool of toxicity drag you down.
But dry cake is the best cake… don’t knock it till you try it.
I mean. I had worse things. Some people like putting mustard on watermelon 
That’s also gross. Stop being gross. >(
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Can I interesting you In a Penutbutter and Mayo Sandwhich?
Or a shrimp and pineapple pizza?
Pickled pigs feet?
LOL now we just need 1 of them to hop on 
's shoulders
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Ironic as that’s what you literally just did. See how you just came up with a definition that i have never heard before in my life.
Min max is about min maxing??? Its about figuring what will be the best option???
Its about optimizing performance? If a windwalker truly wanted to perform better, he would stop playing that character and swap to an arms warrior.
But sure lets say ur right.
Still didnt answer my main point of how choosing a class is no different than choosing a covenant. People say they dont want to have to pick between being good at raiding versus mythic plus. But no one has a problem with how they cant be a outlaw rogue for mythic plus and an arms warrior for raids without having to make 2 characters?
How come i dont see anyone complaining about how you cant freely swap classes.
To be fair, on rare occasions you do see people asking for the ability to have paid class changes.
They lock you into an aesthetic and gameplay. Currently the things, gameplay wise, locked behind covenants are 2 skills each, mini artifact-like trees, and legendaries. None of these things have any chance of being close to balanced. The chances my favorite aesthetic/story covenant lines up with my favorite/fun gameplay is slim to none. If I have to play with an unfun aesthetic to have fun gameplay, or unfun gameplay to have a fun aesthetic, I won’t be playing for long.
This also means that trying to raid and pvp or even switching specs/roles will result in subpar, probably less fun gameplay as a result.
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Bad dog, if you keep it up I’m going to rub your nose in it.
Well… It is different, because you can change your Covenant. I don’t know why people keep saying you’re going to be stuck with it for the whole xpac. Almost like they’re trying to present a false narrative or something, it’s weird…
You are going to rub my nose in food? You promise? Because I always wanted to have a lovely Panda girl to rub my face in food.
Because people don’t want to freely swap classes. The game is about picking a class and playing the game with it. Covenants are part of the game, so people want to do it with the class they pick. You’re attaching false equivalencies between picking a class and picking a covenant.
If a windwalker truly wanted to perform better, he would stop playing that character and swap to an arms warrior.
Ignoring that what you’re describing is literally just the metas that do exist, you are completely ignoring that people still like to min/max their specific spec or class. It isn’t the raiders or min/maxers asking for everything to be 100% optimal, that’s you guys making that up about us. What min/maxers are wanting is to be able to be optimal with the spec they have chosen, which is why you don’t see anyone asking to swap classes.
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