OOTL - Why are people hating on Covenants?

It is the majority you are the minority dude. You are literally the only person in favor of locking the system I have seen that hasn’t admitted they want to punish min maxers and “meta slaves”

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Hazelnutty hasn’t either that I’m aware of (youtuber) I think forums is just a bad representation of us. I don’t think there is many of the more casual players that even bother with the forums. Or rather, casual might be the wrong word. I don’t think there is many of the people who play the game like a interactive book that visit the forums.

Generally people hate it because you can’t easily switch between the convents. It’s almost guaranteed that there will be a ‘best’ covenant that will give you higher dps than the others. Personally I think the idea of covenants are really cool and not being able to switch between them is better for lore.

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I don’t know if you look at the forums but a lot of the things people ask for or advocate for punish the higher end of players disproportionately and when those very types bring up their complaints the majority of the forums jumps all over them because they fall outside of that bubble by a considerable margin. So when a min max oriented player complains about something, the lower ends who don’t care about say, your performance being heavily hinged on a selection can’t grasp it and presume there’s just more elitism at play.

No, these forums definitely have a majority of posters issue where they hate the higher level of players. If you don’t do LFR and progress in normal, expect them to dog pile you if you raise a complaint about a system like titanforging that hurts you much more than it ever will them, but they’re just going to see it as you feel they shouldn’t have mythic raid loot for not doing mythic. So it’s ironic you pull the “Stop playing the victim” card because that’s more what these types do than the hardcore players. They’ll feel victimized but it’s not nearly as bad as the hyper casual who will slam down that card before the deck is even in print.

Hazel now spends the majority of her time in game collecting pets the inability to change covs won’t really effect her. I have yet to see a single decent arguement for locking them. Even from a lore perspective the groups within the shadowlands should be working together against the jailer and do during the leveling process. You can also choose to pick one and never change it. I think a way to give that weight would be a stacking buff only active in non instanced content based on how long you have been loyal. Maybe some sort of visual buff as well to show that you have been loyal.

RP in my experience at least the good stuff is basically all player created. There isn’t a need to enforce it with game systems and if anything it cheapens it.

Stacking buff wouldn’t be terrible, but I’m not sure If I can agree with all instanced content. Maybe all unquable content, and pvp.

As long as it doesn’t apply to raids M+ and rated pvp I’m fine with it.

I’m not fully certain but I think a lot of the opposition would be okay with that. Not sure if I seen anyone that is into the Mythic+ or Rated PvP group of players being for the locked system. Hence why I keep making the mistake of calling it casuals that are for it. Correction, I did see one Mythic raider in support. but overall fairly rare. Honestly not even sure if that person wasn’t just trolling. I hate this forum for feedback, can never tell who is genuine, and who is just being a complete buttwagon.

It’s because Blizzard can’t do these kinds of things. Or well, let’s be honest they can but won’t. There’s this dumb trend in Blizzard where you can’t just pick things purely for aesthetics because they feel it necessary to slam it with a bunch of performance increases so it justifies being interacted with.

It’s both a Blizzard problem and a player problem where it’s players so far as if it doesn’t give loot, or a damage increase, or some form of power they likely will engage with it for a week and stop. Blizzard recognizes this and feels it necessary that everything needs to offer some actual reward past aesthetics and rp value and the problem with that is this is thrown in where it shouldn’t be.

Ghostcrawler a while back talked about this where the content the game adds has to be a power increase or offer one at the end otherwise people just will not engage with the system. Good example of this is Deaths of Chromie where it was a ghost town past a few collector types when people learned there was no gear associated with it.

The reasonable approach to covenants would have been an aesthetic tinge on some abilities and a transmog. Problem is this is a system meant to keep us playing as a sort of chore no different than AP 1, AP 2, and this will be AP 3. Rather than constantly add to them they’d rather make them arbitrary power increases because it ensures you’ll keep engaging with the system because “muh play time metrics.” Ironically, I am probably not alone in this but this exact mentality is what makes me not want to play the game anymore. If you miss 1-2 weeks there just feels like no point. I immediately quit 8.3 after getting AOTC in a pug I led because just not having max rank essences or certain essences made it impossible to want to do anything I enjoyed like m+. I was spending more time engaging with chores than I was engaging with the actual game where I liked.

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You know why.

In summary: a portion of forum posters dont want to make the wrong choice based on min/max issues while bliz wants us to make a choice based on aesthetics.

some deeper issues involved for various stakeholders like: is this a nice RPG choice or another way to force re-grinding if “wrong” choice, but you get the idea.

When streaming became a thing back in 2010. Hell, since gearscore in Wrath have people found the tiniest of reasons to gate others from content, and you think that massive power differences isn’t going to be detrimental to peoples experience?

I just don’t get why they don’t just separate the power from the fun/cosmetic stuff.

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Found a video where Asmongold is reacting to Hazelnutty about Azerite Armor, He seemed to be chill with PvP being screwed over because of RP. Interestingly enough his words was . WoW isn’t a fair place, to make it a fair and balanced place would make it an unfun place. You can’t expect to compete with each other in a fair environment. :thinking: Isn’t his issue with the covenents is it could make an unfair unbalanced environment?

This right here. This is the worst comeback I’ve seen all week.

SOuNds liKE a ViDeoGaME :woozy_face:

Oh, good. I didn’t know we weren’t playing a videogame unless Blizzard slapped another layer onto the foundation that more talented people built.

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Everquest never got the credit it deserved for building Vanilla WoW.

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Abilities are borrowed from other endless grind mechanics, no longer is it your class and your spec, but now you have 2 other major trees to farm for each covenant. They took the worse of legion and combined it with the worse in BFA and created SL. Not to mention some covenants will be OP and then they will be nerfed and you are screwed. This will happen as each new raid comes out, so you have to re-level a toon or go into the content already at a disadvantage.

Instead of working on the classes, specs and talents we have, they are just adding more timegated/drop trees to fix the game.

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Asmon thinks classic is still a good game he also is currently obsessing over a game that supposedly will take 45 plus days of 8 hours a day to hit max level. I’m not sure why you keep bringing up players that don’t play high end content anymore.

no system has ever been balanced that well. the specs are not balanced that well now. nothing is balanced that well.

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these systems were a massive boondoggle, even blizz admits they messed them up, so i would be careful trying to defend something Ion has said, “we know it was a mess but we were behind and just didnt have time to fix it more without it costing a raid tier”.

second,

yeah ok karen.

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I can’t deny that Blizzard knew it was bad, but that still doesn’t mean you still didn’t use it as a cudgel.

I don’t get it. For fifteen years, min/maxers have been denying people for the most banal reasoning, and you act like threatening casuals with Covenants is something new, or that you’ll all change.

No one cares what the 1% thinks. WoD was a clear sign that a majority of people aren’t raid or die.