OOTL - Why are people hating on Covenants?

[Aresia-altar-of-storms]

@Dæmonic-herod

Isnt that the causal crowd that seems to be “Supporting Covenants”?

It is a mix of players supporting covenants. The players that do multiple forms of high level end game content are the ones generally against. They can not wrap their heads around doing content in which they are not optimal. This expansion is shaping up to be interesting in how the community will react.

[Dæmonic-herod]

That lines up with 9.3, where Blizzard will try to correct the bad system bleed. At which point AOC will be out and it will be too late.

[Dæmonic-herod]

Its not them not wanting to not be optimal, I mean it kind of is, however wanting to be optimal is a Basic Human Desire.

However its more, they want to get into groups of which the group leaders want to complete, not waste time. So they will take the most optimized, as the GAME is designed to be done by the most optimized. Its human nature again to take the path of least Resistance, an thats what RIO, Ilvl checking, and now Covenant checking do.

When people are constantly denied of groups, As is evidenced by the couple friends we brought back from classic. They will leave.

The majority of the playerbase, is not a Diehard wow player. Push them around enough and they will go find something else.

[Paeldryth-hyjal (Paeldryth)]

@Aresia-altar-of-storms

It is a mix of players supporting covenants. The players that do multiple forms of high level end game content are the ones generally against. They can not wrap their heads around doing content in which they are not optimal. This expansion is shaping up to be interesting in how the community will react.

People that want to compete in multiple areas of the game will be at a disadvantage compared to those who don’t, all for the sake of vague mumbo jumbo like “rpg elements” which WoW has been just fine without.

[Aulys-nemesis]

So i cant pve and pvp on the same character?

[Warpstone-norgannon (Warpstone)]

Because I should not have to grind out my abilities for 3/4th of the expansion to get my character to play the way it should.

[Dæmonic-herod]

Thats where the real rock and a hardspot comes.

As we still have to PVE for gear to PVP in SL. The vendors were meme.

[Warpstone-norgannon (Warpstone)]

@Dæmonic-herod

The vendors were meme.

Will we be able to find them in Shadowlands?

[Okamiuwu-incendius]

because ppl are tired of borrowed powers significantly influencing their spec, they just want the actual class and class abilities to do damage

[Dæmonic-herod]

Yep you can find them Memeing you.

With their Amazing Selection of gear, complete with 2 Pieces of Haste Vers, 2 Pieces of Haste Mastery, and 18 pieces with Crit major. Literally 3/4 of the gear, and EVERY SINGLE Weapon has Crit Major.

Its time to PVP for PVE gear, and PVE for PVP gear bois!

[Phatfarm-shattered-hand]

Based on your comment I assume you support those boundaries. But do not pretend that you also do not want it all. You want rpg systems tied to player power at the cost of the rpg power progression fantasies of others. Take yourself off that pedistle please.

[Okamiuwu-incendius]

don’t worry bro, blizz will give us haste/vers pvp pieces! but they’ll rating lock the high ilvl items behind 2.4 making them unobtainable to 99% of the arena playerbase because blizzard thinks +15s and 2400 arena are equivalent

[Guartis-deathwing (Guartis)]

Umm, that is bloat. Add add add… when does it end? When a class needs 63 keybinds?

Borrowed power is a necessary evil.

The problem is Blizzard uses borrowed power as a crutch to hold up lazy and unfinished core class design.

[Monori-bleeding-hollow]

a single new button an expansion isn’t bloat

[Guartis-deathwing (Guartis)]

The amount of people being denied groups will go down.

Not everyone can afford to take their class’s M+ covenant. There are players who prioritize raids, or arenas, and will pick to optimize there instead. These sub-ops will still need groups. Naturally, they can all play together. Because the M+ builds will be playing with other M+ players. Raiders and arena junkies are not bad at the game, and will still be able to push up to +15. Maybe not +20, but they can all still play together. It will all balance out.

[Guartis-deathwing (Guartis)]

TBC, Wrath, Cata, MoP, WoD, Legion, BfA, SL. That’s 8 new buttons. That is bloat. 10.0 then brings it to 9. More bloat. Yes, that’s all bloat. I’m sorry, but your system isn’t sustainable. UNLESS there are multiple builds which only need a few of these buttons. THAT might not be the worst.

[Furrymental-stormreaver]

@anon39090818

Why the hate? Am I missing something?

Because the system is needlessly punishing.

I elaborate here:

@Furrymental-stormreaver

But as an RP-based player myself, I have a hard time understanding what benefit a “lock-in” based system provides for myself or for the game.

I feel like, as a casual RP player – I should support the “lock-in” approach. But I can’t understand why and what benefit I gain from a system like that. If I’m supporting a system that restricts others from playing the game how they’d like to play it, when there’s so many ways to play it, across classes with various roles- all so that…I gain nothing(???)… then I feel like I’m supporting a system that punishes other players that simply want to play the game more competitively than myself for no good reason outside of spite.

Even if there was a gain to be made by a player like me – at best it would make me feel bad and selfish about it. But without a benefit – it seems outright sadistic and hateful towards other players that just want to give their teammates/guildees their best. It’s supporting a system that punishes players for just wanting to play the game optimally – which is mind boggling to me.

If the system was changed to be flexible, and allow for players to change their covenant abilities like we can do with specs and talents – it wouldn’t take anything away from me for staying committed to a covenant. I would still have that option and don’t need to extend the consequences of that choice onto everyone else. As an RP player - I would lose NOTHING if others were allowed to change their abilities.

[Swizitch-stormreaver]

@Guartis-deathwing

The amount of people being denied groups will go down.

They’re adding another piece to discriminate against.

Denials are going to go up in Shadowlands, not down.

[Oasis-malygos]

@Dæmonic-herod

Instant Gratification? Or Not being able to play the game? BIG difference buddy.

Nothing about any of this has ANYTHING to do with Instant Gratification.

Where you even pulled instant gratification is beyond me. Isnt that the causal crowd that seems to be “Supporting Covenants”?

“instant gratification” = elitist players wanting to be able to change covenants on a whim so they can min max for all content without consequences.

They dont want to have to work at changing covenants so they can be optimized for different content.

Honestly, only the people pushing world firsts should even be worrying about that level of optimization. Covenants are not going to have that big of an impact on performance when all is said and done.

[Isitjuice-thrall]

@Oasis-malygos

Covenants are not going to have that big of an impact on performance

Boi lmaooooooo