On Lilian Voss';

It’s distressing to me they’ve touched on this character so lightly.

I’m aware I’m in the minority but I defend Voss’s turn in BFA. As someone who came in during Legion having never played since Wrath, she was a brand new character to me. But one I came to be very familiar with as I’ve A LOT of Forsaken toons.

As I didn’t play a Rogue in Legion, and had no reason to do anything other than speed run WoD content, I thought she died in Scholomance. I felt it was gross to inflict such an agonizing death on a character who’d done nothing wrong, and had just been terrified and betrayed at every turn. My gut reaction was “Christ, I guess somebody had a miserable breakup with a Lilian”.

So I was relieved to see her on the Banshee’s Wail. The idea of her finding self acceptance and deciding to help others avoid the suicide crusade she went on was uplifting news. Perhaps they think Forsaken characters should do more than hate themselves and die screaming.

I do admit some bias. I’m an RPer and in Legion came up with the idea this character repatriated to the Forsaken to help the newly risen adjust. Figuring he can’t stop Sylvanas but he can help the new undead acclimate, it’s not too bad once you get used to it. So seeing a character I felt was mistreated return sporting a rationale very similar to what I invented made me happy.

But,

I’ve come to understand why some people felt that character arc was jarring. I do think some people were unobservant; Voss shows hatred of necromancers not the undead on principle, and she is working with RAS in the Uncrowned questline so there is minor precedent.

But yeah, overall, bit jarring she’s now leading the Forsaken.

Luckily,

Warcraft’s a multimedia franchise and they could produce much cheaper storytelling devices elaborating on her character and motivations. Online novellas aren’t exactly pricey to produce.

Unfortunately;

There’s nothing about Voss.

She’s maybe the most compelling character they’ve invented since WC3.

Her whole life was as a tool of the Scarlets, she was almost certainly betrayed and murdered by them, she is raised into undeath and launches a one woman warpath to eradicate all Scarlets and CotD personal, nearly dies in the most painful way imaginable to her kind, recovers and still hunts down necromancers on other worlds, is directly responsible for discovering one of the Legion’s greatest intelligence operations - thus helping defeat them, and finally returns to Tirisfal to aid her people, having finally made peace with what she is.

HOW THE HELL DOES SHE GET ONLY A FEW LINES?!

I DESPERATELY want to know more about this character. Don’t you? This is some compelling ish right here. She has so much room to become such a fascinating character.

It’s just exhausting that Blizz ignores potentially interesting characters to show their old favorites doing increasingly out of character, ridiculous bs. When there’s new characters who’s character is ripe for exploration.

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I’ve got a feeling Voss is on ice until the inevitable Forsaken heritage quest chain, which will likely take place post-Sylvanas fate confirmation.

The reason why there’s no official new leader is because they’re waiting for all the dust to settle and move on from there, which is why the Forsaken story has been forever stagnate since mid-BfA.

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They had a whole date night undeath story with Shaw and Flynn. And don’t get me wrong they’re an adorable couple and I enjoy reading about their misadventures. Just as I was rooting for Lor’Themar to hit it as the First Arcanist was all but putting down landing lights.

But all Voss got was a few lines in SR, same as Calia (the extraordinarily less interesting option but they gave her cleavage so, presumed she’d do something by now).

This is just criminal underutilization.

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Realistically, it’s either because Sylvanas is coming back (which I doubt, but bear with me) and they don’t want to build up her pseudo-replacements too much and that’s why all their dialogue amounts to them saying they’re NOT the Forsaken leaders… or they’re being built-up as Calia being a villain in the inevitable bad Light expansion, and they don’t want to make her associated too much with Calia for when she turns into raid loot.

That or the more realistic outcome and that’s just the fact most writers don’t really have a preference for the Forsaken, which is why their characters and narrative beats are criminally underused and downplayed throughout larger narratives.

Voss not having a presence is bad but the fact there’s a hunt for Sylvanas and not a single Forsaken character is involved is much worse, IMO.

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No, the Voss thing is worse. Villain batting the Forsaken’s leader and destroying their city is a story choice, then giving them no narrative followup for years with no sign of any is a sin.

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Preach it. Lilian is awesome. I want to know more about how she’s adapted to being around other people again, after she was off on her own for a while. I want to know if she had any particular reaction to finding out that Sally Whitemane had been raised into undeath. I want to know more about how she handles being the main Forsaken representative on the Horde council. She’s an interesting character.

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I like Lilian a lot and always have. When she returned in MoP and then again Legion, I was so happy to see her. I’m always up for more of her.

The problem with her portrayal in BfA wasn’t her portrayal - for example her interactions with Zelling and promising to help his family were great - the problem was entirely that nothing showed her complete 180. If it had been built up, if it had been addressed in any way shape or form whatsoever, I’d say it was good development. But it wasn’t addressed, she just went from being neutral and hating undead including herself in Legion, to suddenly being Horde and helping people acclimate to undead-hood in BfA. I think it’s a good place for her to end up at, but they gave us Point A and Point C of her story without the Point B. That’s what her problem was.

Anyway rant over. Yeah I like Lilian a lot and I’d like more of her.

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While I like Voss and would like to see more of her, I loathe the idea of her being leader. If she was a public face of the forsaken reporting back to the Grand Executor (for instance), that would be fine.

I feel like she’s going used as a vehicle to gaslight forsaken identity into something blizzard can easily ignore from here on in.

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:100:
I am so confused why night elves are so vocal, but forsaken are so quiet.

They’re more whiny

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I know you love her, Ben, but I will never consider Lillian Voss to be a real Forsaken character. She’s a graft who should have stayed neutral, and a character who was with the Forsaken from the start should have been promoted instead. And I resent her for that.

The best I can say about her is that I’d rather have her than Calia, if those were the only choices.

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I mean, she basically was. I know she doesn’t join the Forsaken in official capacity but she’s literally one of the first characters you meet in Deathknell.

And then she goes on to murder the Forsaken’s two greatest enemies in Lordaeron. I’m happy for her neutrality because it means even on an Alliance playthrough a Forsaken character is directly responsible for the downfall of the Scarlets and CotD.

If they had a Blue version of that where like Jania or whomever did it, and then they said that was the actual canon story, I would be livid. I’m very happy it was undead claws that tore those villains down, and if they had to distance her from the Forsaken to make that the case then so be it.

Additionally I think she’s probably the best written Forsaken character in game. Murder isn’t just her job, it’s her passion, and she goes about it with dark magic and dirty tactics. Yet despite being a cackling throat slitting enthusiast, she’s not a bad person. She honors good faith arrangements, cares for others and spares innocents. I do love me Calder Gray and other mad scientist, lunatic Forsaken characters but it is nice to see one who is unapologetically undead but still a better human being than the breathers she’s back stabbed.

She is brimming with untapped potential and Blizz’s negligence of her is indicative of their broader indifference to the Forsaken at large.

It’s quite depressing to realize they only ever cared about Sylvanas, and essentially forgot the Forsaken existed the second her narrative divorced from theirs.

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That’s precisely what I mean by “with the Forsaken.”

Lillian was an independent. She should have stayed independent.

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Why? I don’t know if you’ve noticed but the Forsaken were kinda light on characters even when they had Sylvanas and Nathanos.

Voss is the most fleshed out normal undead character in the game. Why in God’s name would we keep her neutral. The Alliance already gets to play around with Valeera Sanguinar. How many cool Rogue ladies are we expected to share?

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You know nothing is stopping y’all from complaining too right?

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That’s sort of my point. It would not be difficult to give her motivations some retroactive exposure.

I didn’t mind the lurch in BFA because I did think it was a natural and good way for her arc to go. They just uh, forgot to write an arc.

Still, we’ve seen a lot worse. No clue WTF Rexar was doing.

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I know right. RAS is one of the most interesting organizations in the game. They have reps turn up in wild areas often uninvited any where there are signs of aberrant biology, doing there own thing and sometimes only loosely connected with plague research. With science being such a multifaceted and unpredictable projectile they could easily have produced a plethora of both mundane and miraculous benefits by now outside of actual plague research.

They should have caught a whiff and made landfall in maldraxis by now. Surely, and come face to face with the source of their existence.

Marileth: Ah, my apprentices, I am oh so very excited. There are so many of you and so very diligent. We are sure to have the House of Plagues back up and running in no time.

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Do I strike you as particularly quiet?
I’m not the issue here. Most Forsaken players aren’t speaking out.
Or maybe they are, but Blizzard’s got bias. Idk. I don’t do twitter/social media.

I’ve been saying that Lilian needs a book of her own, preferably beginning with her time with the Scarlets all the way up until BfA, but I’ll take beginning where we left her in Scholomance.
She’s like a case of one of the greatest character stories never told.

Plus, getting her own story would make it official as being the new main character of the Forsaken.

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It’s really immensely disheartening to me that the Forsaken don’t appear at all in Maldraxxus or Revendreth. The origins of undeath itself seems like it’d be pretty damn relevant to the undead faction. But as per usual they’re using a prettier corpse to do that with Darion. Who I can never take too seriously because we all know he’s a teenager under that helmet. Pretty sure he’s relieved Death Knighthood gives you a baritone. Be pretty funny if his voice cracked.

And Revendreth appears to be the origin of whatever ‘curse’ afflicted Tirisfal. Pontius at least would likely be exhilarated to see the birthplace of his beloved devil doggo darkhounds.

It’s actually deeply annoying as a RPer. Because there’s a lot of fascinating themes and ideas I’d love to sink my teeth into. But I’m reluctant to because it’ll be kind of silly if the rest of the Forsaken never learn any of this information.

Their treatment of the Forsaken really does hinder my enjoyment because I can’t even really make my own fun as I’ve no idea if they’re going to contradict my ideas later. Hard to get excited about the story when you’re afraid to engage with it.

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