Ok, who still DOESN'T want the ripcord pulled and why?

Great.

This philosophy sucks and everyone hates it.

What does that mean for Blizzard?

Less money.

1 Like

Yet conversely everyone hated when in Cata meaningful choice of spec was removed, and then again in MoP when it was removed from talents.

All of the original expansions consisted of layers upon layers of these choices. Professions, class, spec, talents, gear, faction, race, allied reputation etc.

Game was perfectly fine back then. The difference is now people don’t expect a MMORPG from Blizzard. That’s what happens when you keep piling on accessibility features into a game that is supposed to be a RPG.

3 Likes

And not everyone finds meaning in every one of those choices. You can’t say “This choice is meaningful” and expect everyone to agree that the choice was meaningful. People are different and find meaning in different things.

Are you being deliberately obtuse?
I even gave you the definition of a meaningful choice in a RPG. Which WoW is, a mmoRPG.

How hard is it for you to accept that when it comes to roleplaying games, this is the agreed upon definition of what a meaningful choice is when it comes to game design and development.

Again, no one cares about your feelies and what is important to you specifically. That is why the definition is around an objective, not subective design.

You are clearly. You seem to think that you get to determine what meaningful choice is for everyone.

Literally everything is a choice. I could be in bed sleeping. I could be doing any number of things besides typing this sentence.

Every choice has consequences.

Being here on the forums means I’m not doing something else that I could be doing.

People may not know how their choices will turn out long term, but short term it’s pretty obvious.

But you want to decide what people find meaningful. You don’t control anyone else. Blizzard doesn’t control what people find meaningful. What each person finds meaningful is fully and only up to them.

The “MMO” drastically changes the confines of an RPG though, because there are social implications to your choices that don’t exist when playing by yourself.

Which is likely why it’s always the people who do low tier content by themselves for an hour or two a week that are always the most passionate about arguing these silly points favoring restrictions. They don’t impact your ability to hunt murlocs and turn over rocks.

3 Likes

You don’t decide what matters for people though.

Wierd.
Because there are pretty good DHs dps as NF.

No.
Because the balancing would be an even worse nightmare. Signature, Class specif and order of conduits play a lrger role than you stated

If they scrap the systems there wont be a 9.3
But they aren’t doing this so ya we will have a 9.3
You keep asking this every day in the forum, relax, there will be a 9.3 because covid affected all MMOs workframe.
A shame you hate this fact though.

Well, kinda.
If all they do is make switching convenants quickier. But lets no kid ourselves thats not what those threads are asking for.

Thus the quotations. I’m using that to reference content where covenant choice makes a difference is all.

Most folks I’ve seen that are against it aren’t doing said content. :stuck_out_tongue:

1 Like

They make difference in all content.
By the avaiable data every convenat of every spec did beat mythic denathrius and have KSM.
So.

Where do they matter? where is the difference they make?

Honestly laughable.

What you find meaningful is obviously denying everything that contradicts your opinion.

Opinions are subective, definitions are objective. I gave you a definition of what designers use for development of RPG style games.
It doesn’t matter what your opinions and feelings are, this is how the choices are determined in game. That is all you need to know.

Hey, I said above that class restrictions should also be removed and people baulked at the suggestion.
It’s almost like 95% of the playerbase ie the vast majority are not doing cutting edge content.

The game is an MMORPG, not an esport. The game should be designed around being an MMORPG, not around the fact that 5% of the player base feel the need to have every 1% advantage.

I’m content with getting my ahead of the curve with my guild each patch.

As I said earlier, Survival Hunters, Sub Rogues, BM Hunters, Arms Warriors have all done mythic Sire Denathrius.
If it possible for all of the currently seen worst specs in the game to complete the “hardest” content in the game. Then people are definitely not required to have the absolute optimal setup to do the content.

You can do competitive gameplay in WoW, absolutely but it’s the minority. There are other more competitive games if players really feel like WoW isn’t doing it for them because of one choice.

4 Likes

imagine still hinging on to this “EVERYONE WANTS TO HAVE EVERY 1% ADVANTAGE” when most of the people that want to swap are trying to swap more freely away from the BIS choice they made at the beginning (like 99% of players did) so they can have fun on suboptimal versions

you’re just lost man.

this doesn’t even make any sense. you are not restricted in any way from starting a new class. it is significantly easier to play a new class than to swap covenants.

1 Like

Don’t act silly. You know full well what I mean. lol

The majority of folks that I have spoken with that disagree with the assessment that covenants are mediocre to bad haven’t even cleared normal, let alone anything else.

For some specs you can lose a massive chunk of dps, utility, survivability, or any mix of the three.

The system is poorly designed because there are clearly superior choices in many cases. That’s all I’m really saying. lol

1 Like

How many of those developers tell you which choices are the meaningful choices?

But yes, what 1 person finds meaningful is their subjective opinion. That doesn’t make their opinion the only determination for what is meaningful as the person next to them likely has a different opinion on what is meaningful.

You seem to be caught up in this thing where “Blizzard said it’s meaningful so that must mean it’s meaningful to everyone.” And that’s not how it works. Just because Blizzard called it a meaningful choice doesn’t mean people have to think it’s meaningful.

Again, Blizzard is literally the only game studio that has ever come out and told players what “the meaningful” choice is.

I do.
You also know what i mean.
So?
Where is this difference? We have even necrolord warriors at 2400 plus pvp rating.

Then everygame is poorly designed unless it is pretty generic.
I mean, warriors are simple not the best dps atm, by your own definition you are hindering yoruself and others.

1 Like

Nothing stopping them. You get a free swap to each covenant :man_shrugging:

You’re telling me it’s easier to level a mew character, gear them up, do their torghast runs, get their legendaries, get their conduits, gain reputation with Ven’ari, and raise their renown than it is to do a quest each week for 2 weeks?
Ok then.

Probably because other game studios realise their players are smart enough to understand the choices.
Blizzard is catering to the fortnite playerbase they created from Legion to BfA.

If your only issue is that they said “we want this to be a meaningful choice” then honestly I don’t know what to tell you.

Pretty sure 90% of the meaningful choices in the game have (or did have on first creation) notifications about it anyway so I’m not sure why this one bothers you.

That warning that comes up when you choose to level through fates or campaign? When you try and create a legendary? When you pick your first and second primary professions?
When you pick Wolcar over Oracles?

Almost all of these options have either had dialogue or warning boxes about your choice.
In the past your faction choice per server did this. On PvP servers it warned you that creating a Horde character for example would make you unable to create Alliance characters on the server, and this is back in vanilla. In Legion you had to pick your first weapon and were told you would not be able to get any others for a period of time, and I’m sure it was also done when you first invested AP into a specific weapon.

The only thing that has changed is visibility was brought to it and people decided to get their feelings hurt. These choices have been in the game since day 1.

1 Like

Yes, because all I do is hit create new character and select that class.

How much I play it is entirely irrelevant. Your argument is basically saying that because I chose Warlock (Night Fae) I shouldn’t be able to then choose Mage (Venthyr) because that invalidates the meaning behind my Warlock

Restrictions are bad. Stop pretending you think otherwise.

2 Likes

Just because something can be done doesn’t mean it should be or that the game isn’t unbalanced. lol

I’m not saying that folks should blindly adhere to a meta that they probably don’t even understand, merely that Blizzard should make more of an effort to bring these things to parity as some of them make a significant difference to their given spec while others do very little.

Also… This guy is a barely played alt nowadays. He was never dps even when he was played seriously. Only reason I still post on him is because people know the name. lol

1 Like

Yet again, you baulk at classes being non restricted. Make up your mind.
You’re telling me that an ability and soulbinds is a bigger restrictive issue than classes and spec?

So you would take a Sub Rogue with the “correct” covenant for Mythic Sire, over an Affliction Lock with the “incorrect” covenant. With all other things being equal. Correct?

Oh I completely agree. People should definitely feel empowered and that their choice was a good one, or at least not a negative one.

But that is a balance issue, not a systems issue. I would also argue that many of the covenant abilities simply don’t feel inspiring or impactful. Most of the hybrid class abilities definitely feel like good examples of this, where their overall design is “does healing or damage” just in slightly different ways.

Whereas Warrior’s choices feel the opposite, large ST damage, a group buff, significant AoE damage, or relatively unique crowd control.

No most of us are fine with that remove the cooldown and let us run all our covenants to 40 and swap back and forth if we want. Also in tandem drop conduit energy it should never have been a thing in the first place.

1 Like

I could care less what happens with this ripcord thing tbh