Its definitely heavily dependent on the stage of the game and the luck of your guild. I know mine hasnt seen alot of them. But also with the release of ZG, Sacrificial gauntlets have become more desired for raid geared warriors since youre only trading off about 13 AP for 1 hit. Opening up your gear options more
You would think so, but then you mention that you’re ret and they just ignore you because there is a ton of other dps. It doesn’t even apply to just raids if you try to go to brd arena/anger/golem runs you better be making your own group because you’re not getting invited.
I feel like its kinda the same with dps warriors. Most people dont invite them because “youre a warrior and you should be tanking” but typically they cant because they have so much leather gear. And i agree with this sentiment to some degree. I leveld as prot and i offered to tank every dung i went to with the exception of UBRS
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Not going to lie I personally do that because I’ve been spited by warriors so much it’s unreal. I’ve even been the main tank for UBRS as a pally so the warriors not saving any plate gear to tank are just being lazy and don’t want to do it.
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Ive already proven that there are less fears in the game and more abilities to break fear than just pvp trinket
While there are more stuns in the game, more classes than can stun, and less ways to break said stun.
LOL not even. Paladins are still the most effective class at healing in the game.
You think escape artist helps vs mages, it doesn’t. Because when you get slow’d or frozen an stop to cast. He is also moving faster or casting something to reapply the slow. Warriors can’t beat ice mages, having it might help you get a kill here or there but it won’t change a lost fight into a won fight.
Druids LuL, okay so you get outta root, an lets say you still have interrcept. An lets say the world is perfect an he doesnt just trinket and re root you, sure maybe you kill that druid that one time you landed a charge on him in caster form.
Warriors PVP power doesnt come from escape artist on alliance it solely comes from a paladin healer. Horde warriors on the other hand spec’d into stun resist with healer back up are far more dangerous as they negate something no one else can as well as fear, or they resist that fear even more, or they have an aoe stun. Trolls sure not so hot, but 3/4 is better then .5/4
Stuns an fears when you break them are game changing because reapplying them is hard. CD’s and cast times. Breaking a slow/snare vs a mage who can reapply a slow with rank one frost blot, nova, CC, blizzard r1, or even just ice armor, or a druid that could NS an re root you, or once again just hard cast it with barskin is not.
When you resist Hammer of justice vs a paladin its devastating , or charge or intercept from a non orc warrior vs an orc warrior. Or a orc rogue vs a non orc rogue. Or a warlock/priest vs an Undead anything. These all ruin class dynamics. When you cast your snare removal while your opponent is still active you are already behind in the fight, and you are going to lose.
LOL not even. Paladins are still the most effective class at healing in the game.
Efficiency is not effectiveness, ask any paladin trying to heal 2 targets. Now ask a priest the same question.
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So the fights where i have pvp trinket up to break root and almost 1 shot them and they pop cold snap to reroot me. I would still have lost? Even though i could have broken that root? Are you even reading what you are writing before you type it? Yeah im sure if the mage ice blocks after the first nova they only have to wait 15 seconds instead of 25 but now they have to decide to either pop a 10 min cd to reroot me or conserve a 10 min cd.
You wanna know how i know your argument is illogical against ice mages? Because I can still kill an ice mage if i have pvp trink up and they dont have cold snap up sometimes. So having a second root break is kinda game changing. Thats why if i FAP vs an ice mage they are basically a joke. I just slap them 4-5 times and they die.
I mean i guess? im a squishy rogue and if my 5 pt kidney gets resisted i dont feel DEVISTATED i dont even pop a cd typically. But i guess thats kinda apples to oranges. Even though warrior is almost a hard counter to rogue and i can still typically beat orc warrior without any cds or at least without more than 1. Rogue vs rogue in general is just whoever gets the open. And if youre a dwarf rogue they cant keep the stunlock going because you can break their poisons/bleeds/blind with your racial.
Shadow priests dominate like 90% of all classic characters so idk what youre talking about. And me breaking the fear that they have most of the time doesnt even help me. My only chance at beating a shadow priest is making sure they dont even have the opportunity to attack ever. In fights where ive broken the fear i still lose. Because if they were even able to cast an ability to begin with means i lost. Same with warlocks. If i open on a lock and they deathcoil me and use demonic sacrifice twice in a fight (which i see often) i typically wont win. My only bet against a lock is the same tactic dont let them fight. And as an UD warrior against a lock if they use sacrifice it doesnt matter if i can break 10 fears. I still lose because sacrifice doesnt let me generate rage.
Disagree wholeheartedly
You are very right but id rather have more things that break root as a warrior than having another fear break when i already have 3.
Whats better having 4 tools that all do the same job? Or having 3 tools that do the same job and 1 that does a different job
The 2 factors that will influence how BGs play out in classic are:
-Players who wanted to PvP rolled Horde because the racials are significantly better
-Horde queues are long so they will play very hard to win
all those minor “terrain” arguments etc about AV I believe are irrelevant if you take these factors into account
Except horde don’t win an insane amount of AB and WSG so the claim that serious pvpers rolled horde rings false. There is no single or even two factors why horde win a large portion of AV, but the terrain advantages are definitely part of the problem.
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Anecdotal, but I’ve won almost every single AB / WSG I’ve solo queued for that I wasn’t up against a premade.
And I’m not very geared or good.
A smart healing paladin is specced Holyreck just so they can just turn around and erase you.
Silences, MC, interrupts, knockdowns (not relevant in pvp), and horror (death coil) all prevent paladin bubble from being cast. Paladins are the single most vulnerable class to interrupts and silences than any other class. If a paladin bubbles their attack speed is doubled so they might get one swing off before it ends. Even when it is ended rogues have generally gone back into stealth to reset the fight just a like the paladin did.
I can’t tell if your playing on your rogue or warrior in these posts. Because the idea that you think your globaling a mage is hilarious. Yes ROGUES already have a strong match up for Ice mages, WARRIORS arent killing an ice mage unless that Ice mage isnt undead, and also happens to be a potatoe, lets you get a charge off, has 0 CD’s an you have a healer behind you. Why a healer? Because their dispels don’t cost you time an GCDs like Escape artist does.
You see this all from some 1v1 duel perspective is stupid. 99% of all PVP is in BG’s ,Escape artist is trash tier and things like a passive stun resist, being immune to 1 of the only 2 PC CC’s in the game are strongest. There is a huge reason undead mages run into alliance 40 mans with more confidence then a single Indian man, its because what do they have to fear? THEY ARE LITERALLY IMMUNE.
You think you want escape artist over WotF in PVP is just so telling how many Alliance warlocks aren’t playing PVP because you exsist. You think you have the odd bad match you, your god damn blind man, you negate an entire class. Complaining about shadow priest, friggin LUL.
Disagree wholeheartedly
A normal mage vs warrior fight would go something like this right? in an ideal situation.
You charge 1 second stun. Get your MS off, maybe get through the shields if you crit. He novas, you trinket an get off your 2nd attack an maybe hamstring MAYBE *. He can now RE barrier an CC an keep walking away, cold snap nova, trinket your hamstring. All of these end in creating enough distance to keep you kited.
This is ignoring the fact that IF you charged him he is likly closer to his team then you are to yours. So the last thing you can do is Escape artist and intercept. GG easy right. Except as any non potatoe mage he didnt blow blink or ice block on your 1 second charge stun. An now your done. Its over. GG.
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Any decent paladin prevents the rogue from just restealthing or bandaging during their bubble. And still are able to heal. Thus forcing the rogue to use a cd.
Only if i have prep or a combat spec that has imp kick and imp sprint and not a pure raid combat spec.
Mainly irrelevent. Most ice mages use ice block to break the fear anyway if i even have enough rage to use the fear considering i cant generate rage vs a bubble. I have to be lucky enough to get a crit to break through the barrier and deal some damage. Plus the mage pvp trinket breaks fear. So really them being undead vs any warrior is hugely irrelevent.
I see this from a perspective of many scenarios mainly from the perspective of bgs and potential small encounters in ab or wsg which happen frequently where if i had more than 1 root break i could more reliably kill an ice mage (as a warrior) or at the very least cause him to need to use a 10 minute cooldown rather than not need any cooldowns to win.
I regularly see alliance mages get fear ward from their priests and have plenty of confidence.
Because
As a warrior yes i would rather Escape artist over WOTF or orc stun resist. I lose more fights as a warrior due to roots than stuns. Unless im getting chain stunned in which case it wouldnt even matter.
Less complaining more stating facts that shadow priests are one of the strongest 1v1 classes in classic and still as strong in group pvp situations. And understanding that breaking their 1 fear has little to no effect on whether or not im going to win the fight.
This is literally the worst description of how a fight against an ice mage would go.
- Charge, Hamstring, Change stance
- Mage blinks
- Intercept, blood rage, wait
- Poly cast attempt
- Pummel, wait for 25 rage
- Nova
- Trinket, sit on rage hope for a crit auto, maybe MS or ww depending on rage
- poly silence timer is up. get polyd
- get kited by frost bolt, nova, cone of cold and blinks for the rest of the fight.
However the fight after breaking that trinket changes if i can break another nova after i get polyd. Because basically after im polyd and they frost bolt me if my intercept is up or i get rage to fear even just for a second to apply piercing howl the slow on them will make them want to pop nova in which id be able to break that second nova and apply more pressure. land more hits and potentially win the fight. If he wants to poly me again thatd heal me to full and maybe lose the fight.
I have to talk in terms of small fight pvp and 1v1s because in grp pvp i could just say i have a healer or someone to break the roots and slows and that doesnt matter for the fact of the arguement because the same could be made for anyone getting feared. They could just have another person dispell the fear.
You think the fight where the mage hard casts poly in melee range is the smart mage? The mage with shield still because you hamstring on your charge an gen 0 rage from you intial attack… Then Blinks? a 1 second stun? That he kept his shields through?
I mean this is all hoping that out your 10 attacks on ice armor you don’t get hit by his 15% passive snare. let alone CC, or frost bolts. Re roll gnome please become the pvp god you think it will make you.
What other opportunity does he have to cast poly? if hes hamstringed and he casts nova and i break it whats his next move? just cast CoC and Fireblast and wait for his cds? Or pop a 10 min cd to renova me? I basically only need 1 crit to break through a mages shield
If he doesnt blink then what? he novas and i break the nova there instead? the outcome of the fight doesnt change much from that point
Please reroll gnome, an fight mages who never trinket or ice block.
whats he going to trinket for? i can literally reapply the slow instantaneously. I fight a lot of ice mages so if they are all bad thats on your own faction dude
Yes this is why everyone complains about gnome rogues an warriors all the time. Cause EA is so OP. just look at this topic everyone saying alliance wins everything because of gnomes. horde mages are in shambles all because of gnomes
You think you know, but you don’t
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Literally not even the point but ok
Typical blinded horde who sees a pre-made won (a whopping 13% win rate) and assume Alliance now can always win. I think you need to learn how bad 13% is in this situation.
LOL I lmao to when I saw that Horde’s reply. I guess they feel 13% win rate is awesome (for a pre-made).