I’ve made this argument dozens of times and everyone brushes it off. If the map was so imbalanced that it’s impossible for alliance to win, then why were premades so successful? And I’m not even talking about the rank 9+ 6 minute win premades. A bunch of randoms in discord could win well over 75% of their games. The discord I was in was by no means elite. The only requirement was an epic mount. I think I lost less than 10 games. And most of those were us AFK’ing out of a hard turtle. If the map was as horde biased as people here claim, premades would’ve been 50/50 at best. Map imbalance does not explain a 99:1 win ratio for the horde. But that doesn’t fit the “blizz favors horde” narrative.
1 Like
Ease of communication through voice chat and familiarity is the ultimate advantage over a random pug any day of the week.
Also, map disadvantage is only part of the number of disadvantages.
Whats the difference between watching the allies zerg sit SHGY and sitting in SHGY as a member of an alliance hk farm rep farm?
When I solo 2 bunkers and the gy @ DB and 15 alliance either run or trinket back to do turn ins and then right back out without even trying to recap anything, what am I supposed to think? Poor alliance?
I’m not saying it’s not an advantage. But if the map so horde favored that it’s essentially a free win those two should cancel out at best. The reason alliance pugs can’t win is because they don’t understand the map, and don’t try.
The reason I started premading is because every pug would argue over whether to kill galv, then rush galv, rush drek, wipe. Then everyone would blame it on the fact we killed galv, half the team AFK’s out, lose.
Now the strat is go to SHGY and farm horde for 30 mins while doing turn-ins for rep, then lose.
Alliance pugs don’t even try to win, they never have. Before the “fix” they just failed at copying tryhard 6 minute win strats. Now they openly don’t try to win.
1 Like
Are you honestly trying to compare voice communication with mount requirements to a pug v pug game?
You didn’t quote the op, which is what’s being discussed with his week long observations.
Quite right. Even in retail, the underdog pvp faction still won like 40% of all games. Not all maps being equal in that regard but even if your faction was terrible at, say, AV - you still won 20% of the time.
Quite simply these guys don’t know what they are talking about. Everything about most of what we are seeing is a direct result of the dominate culture.
1 Like
No, hes not comparing full voice premades to pugs. Hes saying good things can happen if you try to make them happen.
If you just want to sit around and mope all the time about fabricated injustices then youre gonna get what you deserve. Or 99% of it lawl.
Like I said, I submitted a bug report and asked them to look into it. If you have evidence that supports what you are saying, please provide some. And I don’t mean that as a taunt, I want to be able to back up my bug report with more than just “I think it used to work this way but I’m not sure.”
His argument is literally comparing premades to pugs. Of course voice communication, level requirements, epic mount requirement is going to help you win.
There is no moping. The map is trash, it’s a “majority” of the problem and until it changes (it won’t) Alliance won’t come back.
1 Like
No I’m saying alliance lose because they don’t know how to play AV. 5 people who know what they’re doing increase your odds of winning by like 20 times if OP’s 13% claim is true. You don’t need voice comms, you need people who understand how AV works, and want to win it, not just farm rep and HK’s. The map is not the reason alliance lose over 99% of AV matches, bad play is. If you want to keep playing the victim fine, you deserve every loss you get. I won’t be solo queueing in classic ever again because the alliance pug scene is hot garbage.
1 Like
No its not. Instead of voice communication and premades how about your team attempts to take stuff from the horde while protecting your own assets?
Its hard to convince anyone where the advantage is when the main advantage the horde has is the alliance only being interested in rep farming in the laziest way they can.
I don’t blame the alliance either. The queues make it quite tolerable and its not like you have to do it forever.
You can say this might be the case now, that only rep farmers queue up and I would agree with you. However this is now what led us down this path.
When you go into a game knowing you have a substantially large chance of losing that is out of your control you slowly stop queueing for it. When your best win ratio is 20-30% there is no point to continue throwing yourself at a wall.
This is why alliance stick to AB and WSG. We win 50% of the time because the map is fair.
1 Like
Source on that 50% winrate?
1 Like
We have to hold both SH and contest IBGY.
Horde don’t because of the cave.
Start with that. Figure out why the map is trash for yourself. Alliance have to play 2-3x harder than the horde do to win. It’s why AV has devolved into such a trash state. No reason to queue if the requirement is to be 3x better then your opponent.
4 Likes
Go play the game.
That’s because actual alliance pvp’ers stopped AV entirely after they “fixed” it. All the premade players went to WSG/AB. Instant queues don’t help us either. People would rather lose quick than win an hour long game.
1 Like
Yes, if they have FWGY and die by it then they rez there.
Why? There’s literally nothing else you can do? SH cant be back capped? Its lost to you forever? The horde is all on the road around Bal trying to outzerg you for SH and theyre all rezzing at SF when that caps. No defense by the horde - ergo the map is pvping you into oblivion?
1 Like
Perhaps because anyone saying “impossible” is overdoing it. However, it’s nearly impossible for a PUG to do it if the horde turtle up at the edge of the field of strife.
If an organized alliance group can break that turtle, take a south GY against 20 horde rezzing in the cave every 30 seconds, cap that GY, and continue to rush to Drek then they can win. That’s how the premades did it.
But a PUG? Unlikely to happen, they just don’t tend to have the organization and focus to do it. The turtle just south of SHGY is too strong, it’s roughly an equal battle so it goes back-and-forth a bit until the horde gets enough to summon the ice lord and wolf riders and push. Alliance can’t do the same because their summon point is right on the line of the battle and it’s too easily interrupted.