I give up you’re either trolling at this point or just not able to understand why you have a superior advantage.
Usually the only people who defend AV are Horde that have never played the other faction before. I’ve been playing wow for 15 years half of which has been playing as Horde.
No amount of strategy will fix this map for the Alliance. So Alliance will just not queue for it. Why struggle and have to outplay the horde heavily when you can just queue for AB/WSG and have an even match.
Any and all horde “map advantages” are completely predicated on the alliance pve zerging. Otherwise, its a pvp battleground where you have to pvp better than the other guy to win.
How can you possibly be so dense to realize that it’s not just a “learn to pvp” issue?
Why do alliance have at least a 50% win rate in wsg/ab? Just magic?
I’ve been playing off and on for 15 years too bud. Played back in the beta and played both horde and alliance in vanilla.
Have you been in AV in the last 2 months? I’m not saying Horde don’t have an advantage, because we do, but you’re acting like it’s completely insurmountable. But if you step into AV these days, alliance literally don’t even try, then they come to the forums and complain about 20, 10, 1% win rates. I guarantee you if your team actually put in the effort you’d do a lot better. Would it be exactly 50/50? Probably not. But it would be a lot better than it is right now with the majority of your team resigned to just farming rep and refusing to go on offense - and I’m not the only person who has commented on this - plenty of alliance have admitted every AV they get into, half the team is sub-60, rep farming, or afk behind a tree.
I WANT you to win. I want some fun competition. I wish I played alliance so I could work at this problem from in-game instead of attempting to encourage some competition via the forums, but I feel like spending the next 2 weeks leveling an alliance alt about as much as I feel like drilling a new hole in my head.
Source for that 50% win rate in WSG and AB?
When your best case scenario is a 20%-30% win rate you eventually stop queueing for it. The only players left in AV are rep farmers/bots at this point. You will not get alliance to queue for AV until the map issues are fixed (so never).
There is obviously no “source” for the 50% wsg/ab win/loss rate however you can tell by the forum discussions that for the Alliance wsg/ab are basically a non issue. Only the Horde are complaining about it. Spoiled by a 99% win rate in AV they queue for AB/WSG and are confused when they lose so they hate it.
I haven’t exactly been keeping a tally of my wins and losses in WSG and AB but it definitely feels a lot better than 50/50 against pugs. I know that’s anecdotal, but assuming a 50/50 winrate in AB and WSG is, well, an assumption.
I’m sure it’s give and take depending on time/day/weekend whatever.
But the pug v pug match up even at a 40% win rate is still far superior to an almost promised loss in AV.
I agree that right now, you have an almost promised loss in AV, but I think it’s largely due to the way your team plays (or rather, doesn’t play). I’ve seen multiple games where Alliance were creaming us on the scoreboards but just… wouldn’t leave SH, ever.
I don’t know how you turn that tide other than queueing with a 5man a few times to try to get the momentum swinging for the alliance.
Yes and it will never change unless Horde stop scorch earthing making sure alliance get nothing. Or until blizzard fixes the map.
Since neither of those situations are going to happen the queues in AV have no where to go but up and pretty soon i’d wager there just wont be AV games going. This situation happened on this EXACT version of AV in TBC until blizzard stepped in and moved the cave back.
They moved the cave back to coincide with the addition of reinforcements because the horde could just farm the alliance down to zero at the IB choke.
Since there are no reinforcements in Classic AV despite being disturbingly similar to Retail AV one team has to kill the others boss. There’s no excuse as to why you cant do that.
So we’re in agreement that the Horde have an advantage then?
Alliance aren’t coming back.
5/40 is not a premade. That’s only 12.5% of the group. That’s the difference 5 people who understand how to play AV makes, .001% to 13% winrates. Imagine if half a group actually cared about winning
Allies are only at a disadvantage in AV because they want to PvE zerg. That’s all the allies have done in AV for over a decade. That worked for them because the horde played zero defense in retail for a short eternity.
So yes, the map helps the horde in that one scenario because the map isn’t about who can pve zerg the fastest. Its a pvp battleground and you’re not pvping the map.
Edit: As for the alliance not coming back I could care less. Its their loss. Also its none of my business how individuals want to spend the game time.
Just keep up the pve race drivel and ignore the map advantage, gotcha.
Enjoy your 3 hour queue.
Ive acknowledged the disadvantage. I just haven’t conferred godmode status upon it - largely because Im not some edge lord who wants to RP horde vs alliance on the forums.
Yes RP Horde vs Alliance because I call out random idiots who think it’s purely an alliance issue that we lose AV.
There’s two factions but one player base. Horde and alliance aren’t literally distinct races. If horde AV queues were five minutes the alliance would win plenty of AVs due to all the honor per hour lose fast apathetic horde toolbags what would clog up AV queues for their welfare pixels.
Of all the evidence that is stupidly right in front of your face right now, the map is the least of the alliance problems in AV and I struggle to even call them problems because AV is the way that it is for the alliance because that’s how your faction likes it - you just disagree with them and its easier to go full carnival barker.
Not true. Forward movement on spawns wasn’t added until another expansion. Each GY has a sphere of activation. If you are within that sphere then you spawn at that graveyard. If not then you spawn at cave. In general you would spawn at a capturable GY with priority over the cave. Blizzard ended up hot fixing a bug that would sometimes cause players to spawn at the cave (such as fighting at SPGY with control but spawn at cave even with you dying feet from the flag as an example). Players shouldn’t be spawning at the cave unless they are outside the sphere of activation of another GY.
Do horde ever spawn at FWGY? I have never seen it.
Except when you die at SPGY after it is taken you spawn at cave. That behavior did not happen in vanilla until after the RH was taken.
And how many times have you done AV as alliance in classic? Your perspective is biased.