We tried a few times and died. No, they shouldn’t nerf him. If you don’t learn the mechanics, it’s not N’zoth’s fault. People need to step up. I mean we’re talking about an entity that was around long before any of us were here for crying out loud. It better be a damn challenge.
I think I am a casual raider. And no, I am not part of any problem. Also, there are no “LFR Forums”. This is General Discussion and I have just as much right to comment on any topic I choose as anyone else does.
His solution was aimed at telling the OP to do the bare minimum so he can succeed in LFR. How is that “shaming”? Seriously? So what should his suggestion be to the OP? Oh, that’s right! It should have been total agreement that there should just be a free loot table when you zone in to LFR. Or a boss in the middle of the room that just sits there with no mechanics other than “hit the tank so one healer can negate the damage while everyone else pew-pews” so he’s easy enough for folks who can’t even take 2 mins to read the DJ. Perfect!
NO…
It is not condescending to state facts. Read the Dungeon Journal that was put in the game by Blizz to give basics about fights. Pay attention. Avoid bad stuff. Win. Period.
And just as a general FYI since you seem to want to make generalizations without knowing anything… There are a ton of people in this thread who only “raid” LFR who are saying the exact same thing I am saying.
The solution is already available in the game. The “problem” isn’t those of us who state that. It is those of you who continue to want to claim that you should be able to zone in and stand there and watch the boss die without doing anything at all or even paying the slightest bit of attention to even a single mechanic.
1 Like
@Raiyyn… Either you are confused about what a casual raider means or you are lying. Either one is not good because it makes you lose credibility. I just looked up your armory. You have multiple Ny’ alotha Mythic and heroic gear. Also, according to your raid journal, you have 0 boss kills on Ny’alotha LFR. In other words you just confirmed my previous point, you are an Hardcore raider commenting on a LFR you’ve never done… CLASSIC.
In regards to your second point, your argument is stupid because based on your logic, there would be no hard raid bosses because anyone can just look up the dungeon journal or watch a youtube video. If you can not even admit that Nzoth is hard, then you have no credibility. Whether Nzoth needs to be nerfed or not is a different story.
I don’t even raid anymore, life has thrown me some curve balls that don’t allow me the time to dedicate to raiding and keeping up my character that I’d like. I have one single Wration kill on Mythic. Sure, I have AOTC that I got with my current guild. I am an AOTC raider, which, to me, is pretty casual.
Hardcore, even “semi hardcore”, would be well into Mythic by now, perhaps already having CE. I think you’re confused as to what casual and hardcore actually are. The majority of my gear is from Mythic+ Dungeons, not Mythic raids, or it’s purchased with Titan Residuum.
You are correct. I have not touched NYL LFR. Going into LFR isn’t necessary to know the reason why people can’t kill bosses in there. The reason people have trouble is the same reason they always have trouble. They. Can’t. Take. Two. Minutes. To. Read. Basic. Instructions. And. Actually. Pay. Attention. To. What. Is. Going. On. Around. Them.
It’s the same story in every LFR since Dragonsoul, and why I stopped doing LFR. Normal and Heroic are significantly easier than LFR. Not because of actual difficulty, but because the people who “raid” LFR can’t follow basic instructions and won’t pay attention to mechanics.
I never said that no bosses could be hard. Plenty of bosses are hard. Why else would it take hundreds of attempts to kill them? What a silly thing to say.
Watching videos and reading a guide help to give an idea of mechanics to look for. Actually fighting the boss lets you see the mechanics and how they work “in person”. Doing that multiple times gets a kill. LFR “raiders” want to claim LFR is a real raid but they don’t want to have to do real raid things?
Nothing needs a nerf just because the OPs group couldn’t one shot the boss on day one of release. Sorry.
I disagree. He is fine and all you do is need to get everyone on the same page. You know actually communicate in LFR.
That’s wrong in this case. The rest of the raid is reasonably easy, but not N’Zoth. LFR N’Zoth seems to have all the mechanics of normal N’Zoth, with the numbers tuned down. You really should queue up and get a kill before you talk about something you know little about. Maybe you can even carry the raid and parse (LOL).
The first problem is that you need strong leadership and organization in order to: 1) organize groups of tanks/healers/dps; 2) dictate who goes down to kill psychus; 3) spam raid warnings and mark kill targets to “assist” people without DBM; and 4) identify why you are wiping and inspire people to votekick the problems. I guarantee if you just YOLO it with no leadership you’ll just build stacks all night until you ragequit in frustration and/or die of boredom while tanks, healers, and your high ilv dps cycle in and out of the group.
As a complication to the first problem, you won’t have discord and few will join the in-game voice application, so the raid leader will have to type out instructions. I’ve made macros to speed things along, but it is hard to get people to read when they are focused on dpsing/healing. Nobody is going to watch a video, even late at night when you wait 10-20 minutes between tanks (tried it).
The next problem is that you need 2 tanks that know what they are doing or learn quickly, and one group of people who can survive long enough to target 5-6 tentacles before turning to Psychus and finding their body afterwards. The tank upstairs needs to be aware enough to run to the bashers before any dps die and the undergeared/inexperienced/bad dps/healers you put in the upstairs group need to be competent enough to kill most of the bigger tentacles before N’Zoth turns attackable (sans damage reduction shield).
The last problem is that the minimum iLv of 410 + rank 1 cloak entry requirement means some of your raid will be 410 bag ilv with rank 1 cloak. It’s hard to do enough dps/hps with such a low ilv, and rank 1 cloak means they probably don’t have the good corruptions or they have some stupid level of corruption that will more likely kill them than magically make them into a dps/hps powerhouse. You’ll need high ilv characters with Normal/Heroic/Mythic N’Zoth experience to help carry the raid and bring the aggregate ilv of the raid closer to the gear level that drops there. You aren’t going to carry LFR N’Zoth at 440 ilv.
Come back and report how easy it was when you do get your kill, and make sure to log it so we can see if you were carried by high ilv dps and/or had to drag along a bunch of 410-425 ilv folks. Also state how many hours it took from start of queue to boss death.
3 Likes
I didn’t say it was easy. I said it should be easy enough.
From what I’ve heard, and from doing both Normal and Heroic where the mechanics are harder (Normal is, from what you say, exactly the same), The only thing people need to do is kill the right tentacle…the one the mob is at…and the tank needs to move to the next tentacle when the mob dies to get up to probably 4 or 5 stacks (5 or 6 in normal/heroic). That IS NOT hard no matter what you say IF people can read the dungeon journal, that tells them to do that, and actually pay attention.
DPS in LFR has always been low. Nothing new there.
You can theorize all you want, but you’re just talking out of your behind. Go do LFR N’Zoth in your dps spec, or whatever heal spec you normally main for raids. Come back to gloat that you were right.
1 Like
I killed N’Zoth day one of LFR, on my DPS. That week, I also killed him on two healers and a tank. What it takes is someone to tell the raid the following:
“Only kill tentacles near Phychus.
Use your neck whenever you are below 50% sanity.
Don’t stand in black puddles.
If you are in an odd group, go in the portal AFTER using your neck.
Go to the boss/wall when RL calls it out.
If you somehow lose all sanity, throw yourself off the edge (seriously, it helps).”
That is it… all other mechanics can be mostly ignored by the majority of the raid. The ones who really know what they are doing will take care of extra tentacles, killing neurons, and killing adds on the last phase… they don’t take much.
That is the detailed list. It really comes down to:
“Kill what you are supposed to kill.
Don’t stand in bad things.
Push big button every 30 seconds.”
I know… three things is a lot for LFR to remember, but if we all put our big boy pants on, we can do it!
What is so hard about N’zoth on lfr? Normal was stupid easy. Heroics not much different. Are people just expecting to tunnel the boss and win? Is it that hard to go down and do the other phase. I mean on normal you can have the same group do it both times. I would imagine lfr is the same. Is there no one who can figure out how to do this?
1 Like
You gotta experience it first hand to know the horrors. It’s all the mechanics of normal with some modest nerfs to damage/boss hp/sanity loss. And a mixed bag of players you can’t pre-filter; some of whom have never been there before.
If you don’t want to do that, then try running the “stupid easy” Normal mode by setting min ilvl at 425 and taking the first 25 people who sign up in the right roles (2 tanks, 5 healers, 18 dps - no cheating by asking for AOTC or even a previous N’Zoth kill on any difficulty) and seeing how many wipes it takes for a kill.
Sounds like you got a lucky invite into a raid with an experienced RL, and enough experienced/geared tanks, healers, and dps.
Button takes a minute to refresh in LFR though, unaffected by determination, so I’m not sure I believe you actually killed it 4 times. Post on your big boy characters!
I RL’d 2 of them… so I guess so? I haven’t done normal/heroic/mythic at all… Genuine LFR hero here!
Did you organize the groups too? I mean, if this is all you told people as RL and you still won, they probably knew what to do in the first place:
Yes - I set up groups, grabbed 2 healers for portal, left 3 up top. Made sure the tank knew what they were doing with phychus (or tanked him myself), and… yeah. Still had 1-3 people get MC’d each portal phase, but we still pulled it off.
That sounds far more complex than what you originally wrote.
I haven’t run LFR at all (as everyone here likes to point out) and this is EXACTLY what I’ve been saying. It’s always this. I’m happy to see that someone who actually has done it, multiple times, says the same thing that anyone who’s ever been in any LFR knows to be true.
Do basic mechanics. Don’t stand in the proverbial “fire”. Win.
Everything you said in your “long list” is stated in the dungeon journal (except the odd group thing) and the one thing that’s not can be said in a sentence by which ever tank is also going down. Frankly, it could be “if you know the portal, get in it” regardless of groups.
Well…
Yes. And since they can’t, they want it nerfed so they can.
The only thing counter intuitive for the LFR crowd is stacking on the person with the blue/purple ring so the sanity loss is spread among more players. But once 10 or 12 people understood that it went easier.
It is frightfully obvious why this Boss is overwhelming the typical LFR group. For years now, LFR has allowed a small percentage of the raid to carry the dead weight. A handful of well-geared LFR Heroes could power through and get the job done while the rest were either AFK, facerolling their keyboards, standing in various puddles of badness, or chatting away while chipping in their monumentally insignificant amount of DPS.
Along comes a fight that carries a harsh penalty for such behavior and the bads can now easily prevent the Heroes from carrying the group. It all comes down to having the patience to say the same few things over and over and over ad nauseam until a majority get it. The majority figure is adjusted somewhat by number of Determination stacks.
All in all, the fact is the rewards do not support the patience required as you are not likely to get a reward the majority of the time. Even the quest reward for the first time killing N’Zoth is hardly worth the effort. You get exactly the same thing you can much more easily, and quickly, get from completing an emissary quest (3k Ap).