Wild. Like how? What is happening.
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Fury is perfectly fine. Arms is fine in raids, but dumpstered in PvP.
Fury is falling off weak after week as other classes scale with tier/ilvl and it doesnt. this noticable in raid, very evident in M+, but its perfectly fine in pvp. Arms is doing well in raids/M+ but sucks in pvp. blizzard is probably thinking players should just reroll based on the content your doing despite the fact arms and fury play very differently.
Honestly, as I scale upwards, Iâm overtaking the Warlocks and on occasion the Enhancement Shaman in the raid. Iâve not seen any fall off.
What ilvl would you say it becomes noticeable? Im at 650 currently.
you personally taking over ur guilds lock and enh sham is very anecdotal in that they could be the best players in the world and ur starting to beat them, or the worst ever and ur just starting to beat them.
Wowhead has the stats from week 1 and week 2 posted. week 2 doesnt show a drop in raid performance from 11th place, but week 2 wasnt a big week for most, week 3 will be more interesting as it added a new catalyst charge and people finished crafted pieces. week 1 fury went down 7 spots and raid teams switched to using arms warriors week 2. individual logs show fury stagnating and with the most recent buff/nerfs, the meta specs (boomy which somehow got buffed, unholy dk, assa rogue got buffed,etc) that stagnation will move fury further down and out is my belief.
Personally im 660ilvl, and my buds who are similar are ruining me in M+ but im doing above the avg dps overall which is 2.620mil for fury atm according to archon.gg. anecdotal so adds little to this convo, just pointing it out. my friends laughing at me cause he does 20-22mil dps on large aoe pulls as ret and just got a single target buff so he can probably tie me on bosses now.
Edit: you dont have to take it from me, Critcake is a fairly respected high pve warrior and has been pretty vocal about Arms>fury and fury falling off recently.
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Every single week fury is falling further and further down the list. Itâs not wanted in M+. Raid ST should be where fury absolutely shines (due to the cap issue), but its not. Fury could potentially work with a five target cap but it cannot be mid to lower mid pack ST and expect to keep up in any way at all. Adjust the numbers so fury is top tier ST and it could still do decent in M+ while having that much needed priority damage for bosses/mini bosses (a niche that many classes donât fill and makes up for our weaker utility issues). Ret with their current upcoming ST buffs will just be better in all scenarios period. M+/ST/utility. They have it all.
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Thank you for the insight! Perhaps itâs time to learn Arms!
fury needs to be uncapped, until then we will suck on aoe.
they buffed survival hunter which is already doing way more than warrior.
Devs are a bunch of morons, unworthy humans
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Also isnât time to remove the frenzy requirement? Why are we punished for target swapping?
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Its because of dungeon design. This season encourages a lot of big pulls. Furyâs target cap is what holds it back this season, but in previous seasons has been a benefit due to their ability to do prioroty damage to a specific target.
I wouldnât expect any changes besides maybe a slight Bladestorm/Ravager buff for both Arms and Fury since itâs doing such poor damage.
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i would agree if it was the case that on 5 or less targets fury was top 3 dps, but its not. If it was top 3 overall on 5 cleave or less due to its cap, its overall dps would still match other dps or better in even this seasons dungeons. People forget season 1 fury didnt do well cause of âsmaller pullsâ fury did better cause odynâs fury burst AoE was high as heck and is dumpster tier now.
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Please notice how I said, âPrevious Seasonsâ and said nothing about which specific season.
Seasons like S3 of BfA are a prime example of when Furyâs target cap allowed it to excel.
Like I said the issue really isnât Furyâs tuning outside of a few abilities (Bladestorm/ Ravager for example). Its simply the damage profile you want for most of the keys this season are more in line with Armâs damage profile.
this is what im trying to point out to you though. is that it doesnt matter what dungeons are in the mix, under current tuning fury would not do well. having to go as far back as S3 BFA to find a good time for fury doesnt mean it wasnt the tuning at the time that made the spec good. right now its undertuned with the same target cap. tune it up, same dungeons, same cap on targets, and it will perform like everyone else. when people ask for the target cap to be removed they are really just asking for their dps to go higher and that can be done within this target cap if blizzard decides to not remove it, but it starts with our capstone talents not being junk tier.
EX. if my buddies can burst for 20-22mil dps on large pulls, but im capped at 7-8mil under perfect conditions thats fine, if every subsequent pack that isnt 12+ targets im still doing 6-7mil dps while they do 4-5mil, it will even itself out by the end, but thats not what happens right now.
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Thatâs the issue. Other spec are going with the flow of the changes to M+ and raid while fury is stuck in the past. Having abilities built around old designs does not help us. In raid ST fury is lower mid pack. Thatâs not acceptable for a class that is suppose to have âpriority dpsâ. That makes no sense. Being target capped to five would only further be a reason we should be top tier ST dps this season. If its our niche, cool make it make sense then. Classes already doing better than we are have up coming buffs while we are sitting on the worst tier set this season while also having the worst target cap issue, as well as being bottom of the barrel when it comes to utility.
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Holy crap this is so far beyond misinformed.
Fury is exceptional on pure ST fights. The problem is the amount of fights in this raid with multiple opportunities to do cleave/aoe burst. Which fury is very mediocre at.
Still fine unless you are HOF raider. And if you are a HOF raider you should be rerolling based on your raid leader/raid councilâs decisions anyways.
When I need to hop into a time machine to go back half a decade to find when the âdamage profileâ matched the âdungeon poolâ then the issue isnât the dungeon pool, itâs the class design.
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Very unture as well. Fury is still timing keys still at roughly the same rate and rank as Arms. Even in dungeons like Cindrebrew, and Priory Fury is still timing keys in the 15/16 range. Whether or not that will continue as players have access to more preferred gear slots, remains to be seen. However I donât forsee a few cantrip items or additional item levels swinging things too far in one direction or another.
Short of a few abilities not tuned well (Odynâs, Bladestorm/Ravager, etc.) Fury is doing fine in keys.
I used BfA S3 as an example of Furyâs Damage profile excelling based on the dungeon design. During that point in time, besides Rogues (who were giga strong through out most of BfA) Fury was the best melee class simply due to the fact that pulling big was a mistake that season. It got to blast consistently because the parameters the encounters allowed for it to do well.
You can see this more clearly across a lot of boss fights weâve recently have had and are currently experiencing with LoU (Junkbunker, Reverb on Mythic, and Gallywix). Fury has a strong damage profile that gets to excel when conditions are good.
Iâm assuming your friend is an Unholy DK who does nothing else for the rest of the dungeon? They got Power Infusion, used a potion, had a bunch of lucky procs, and popped off? Thatâs not an equal situation at all, considering they do such poor single target that over the course of a higher key your damage would more than likely even out.
Priority damage means you still deal AoE damage, but its more focused in one target. It doesnâtâ mean your single target is necessarily strong. It just means youâre doing more damage to a single target while AoEing compared to something like an Elemental Shaman who just drops Earthquake and does equal damage to all targets.
There are plenty of places in this seasonâs dungeon design where that type of profile works well. Priory with the Paladins. Cinderbrew with Careless Hopgoblins. All of Theater of Pain, etc.
If it was so poor we wouldnât see Fury being bought to 15/16 Keys that are being timed. But weâve seen groups succeed with Fury despite its AoE Cap, and despite itâs current tuning.
Again not saying there arenât areas that could be improved (Again Iâve cited Odynâs Bladestorm/Ravager), but the âWoE is meâ shtick isnât it.
This isnât a Fury specific issue. Itâs a Warrior one. Youâd be hard pressed to convince anyone j to give Fury unique utility while not giving Arms and Protection additional utility as well.
I used it as an example and above have listed examples of this current season where the damage profile is fine. I simply used S3 of BFA, because that was the last time I personally remember its profile being so good to the point that you went out of your way to build comps around Fury Warrior.
Fury as a spec is largely fine at the moment. Itâs not struggling to find success in either keys or Mythic Raid. The only thing thatâs changed is that Arms doesnât completely fall over unavoidable damage now, and the damage profile for this seasonâs dungeons is more in line with abilities like Cleave. Fury isnât in an abysmal non-playable state like Augmentation is.
naw, ret and enh shaman.
no one is saying that, the point is its not high up there and is largely being ignored atm while specs that are already considered meta are getting buffs.
no one is saying its so bad it cant time keys, but good luck getting an invite that isnt a premade friend group to take u to those keys unless ur a streamer. theres no reason to take fury, ST? not top 3, AoE compared to meta? low, utility? none.
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So a 30 second class that has to spec completely into AoE and have subpar single target in exchange (ret), OR Enhancement which honestly deserves its time in the sun for how awful itâs been in recent years.
Thatâs probably fine.
What meta specs are receiving buffs? WW is getting nerfed. Fire Mage is getting nerfed. Shadow priest is getting nerfed.
Are you talking about Elemental and Balance? Both of which had abysmal single target? BM who doesnât spec Dark Ranger atm?
What class is getting a buff thatâs considered âmetaâ atm? Additionally this is the first set of changes, and recently with these Friday Hotfix posts, generally Sunday or Monday additional changes get made.
So the same issues that Warriorâs have had for the last several expansions? Why is this new and Pikachu surprise face? Youâre never going to see changes with things like Utility or Damage profiles in hotfixes. If you want those changes you have to champion for them during Alpha/Beta or during big patches like 11.1. Expecting new spells and stuff only comes in emergencies during .5 patches (EG All of Dragonflight when they were balancing out the new talent trees). A hotfix at best is going to give you a couple of % points on an ability here or there. Not give you utility or change your profile.
Make a stink about it during those periods, not two weeks after a patch as shipped.
dont know what rets your playing with, but this does absolutely not describe the rets i play with. and ENH has been good for many seasons in a row now not sure where you been.
ele/balance/assa? ret in M+?, MM wasnt meta but was still doing better than fury? sp was not meta.
so because its not new we cant talk about? we cant ask for fixes? logic.