Not a single fury or arms change

Classes Warrior
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Rets have to choose between having AoE or ST, similar to Arms Warrior. They cannot do both at the same time.

The only Enhancement has been ahead of Warriors in terms of representation at the highest key levels has been TWW S1. Every other season they’ve been below 5% of the upper key levels, while DPS Warrior has had at least 10% of all melee representation. The only specs with less representation in M+ than enhance are Feral, Windwalker, and Survival.

TWW S1 is the first time they’ve been hard meta, beyond that, they had a tiny bit of time to shine in DF S1, afterwards they were relegated back down to dumpster tier.

Already pointed out Ele and Balance, and both of those are purely single target buffs they badly need for raid. As I said earlier, I wouldn’t be surprised if on Sunday or Monday we saw changes to Ele and Balance to pull in their AoE damage.

Assassination is literally so that people will stop using TWW S1 Tier bonuses. They kneecap’d the tier bonus, and than are giving it a few percentages for compensation. That’s not a buff.

Getting a buff to Final Verdict (and no other changes), a single target spender ability that barely does more damage than Blade of Justice (a builder). That’s a pittance buff for single target which is focused on the raid performance. Again this ain’t tipping the scales or sending something into the stratosphere for M+.

MM isn’t even represented in keys above 14. Literally 0. Its needs the help.

Shadowpriests make up more of the meta than Evokers and Warlocks (Also MM since for some reason you’re pointing that out), and the only reason it wasn’t seeing more play is because Discipline is the go to healer. Its issues have more to do with you don’t want a second priest in the group, and its also catching nerfs on Tuesday.

I’m saying, if you come to the forums to complain only when a hotfix is approaching, and not during a PTR/Beta Cycle when they’re heavily listening to player feedback and have the ability to make changes, you’re missing your window of opportunity. Complaining about your utility during a hotfix change is largely shouting at clouds.

Be active, like myself and others, when the changes are more likely to occur. Don’t complain when there’s no chance of the changes happening.

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lets not act like the single target changes wont boost these already meta specs in M+ it simply will. and even when ret was choosing aoe>st for M+ it still wasnt far behind fury on bosses, and having ranged abilities to a degree makes it more optimal as well.<–in M+ to be clear.

Im not saying im here to complain about utility, it has to be brought up that we have none and that complaining during ptr/beta cycle accomplished nothing. so in return now we need the dps tuning to compensate for the utility we did not get and dont have. you cannot have a situation where you have both no utility and ur not top 5 in any category for a dps. just because its “functional” ur mostly gimping any group that takes u over any of the other 10 dps specs that are better.

Also just to add im unwilling to listen to representation arguments, if we spent time talking about why even last season when ret was worse it still was one of the highest rep’d melee and why all time warrior has had good rep, we would be talking in circles, often times popularity is not = to strength. unholy dk is stronger than fury and ret, and has lower rep in keys 7-17 than both.

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I’m not saying it won’t. However I don’t see Balance and Elemental staying that way (either from another hotfix down the road, or the updates that are most likely coming before resets to our current hotfix). Again the Paladin one is so small its not going to nudge the meta one way or another.

I love how you answered your own question in the sentence by pointing out that Ret has ranged abilities and its ability to continue to do damage while Fury was forced off meant they did similar boss damage and that it had very little to do with tuning.

Quite literally the reason we had a shuffle on the class tree in TWW so that we could have shockwave as a DPS instead of it being a capstone, is because of our feedback. Yeah I would love to see more changes so we could take things like Intimidating Shout. I want Warriors to get a Bloodlust/Heroism effect. But let’s not sit here and say our feedback “accomplished nothing”.

Correct. Do you notice how all of my comments about spec strength are about the highest level of key they’ve been able to complete and how frequently they complete those keys? If I used that logic purely based on population, I’d be yelling for Arms buffs every day even when it was strong, because Fury has higher population representation across all keys and raid. No one cares about class balance at a +10. Every Aug in its awful state can do a +10.

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Community perception 100% cares. I despise this “defense” every time I see it.

A vast majority of the player base does not care at all if you can complete a key if you’re still the one of the worst at it.

That’s its own problem, etc. Still the reality.

3 Likes
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no because if we take say the first boss in rookery, which having range would not help u on, theres very little diff between ret and fury, but the 2nd boss that requires lots of avoidance ret>fury. your logic in that statement would have fury ahead on lower uptime but thats not the case, ret wins that exchange by a fair margin.

it did, it accomplished very little, yes talents shuffled around, but it was at the end of the day the exact same utility that was shuffled to different spots, nothing new was added.

i absolutely care about balance from 10 and up or even lower, if fury is doing less overall dps at all levels that includes 10 keys. while having nil utility…yes you 100% complete the 10 everytime, but the perception of the spec matters, we cant pretend its an easy invite for the fury who everyone knows isnt gonna help out the key at any range over the 10 other specs above it.

Look we both want similar things here, youve already pointed out the things u wanted touched up and ive said the exact same, we’re arguing the semantics of our reasons behind our same wants. We both want the capstones buffed. theres no reason fury should have been left out of this massive tuning pass is my argument.

You: i want capstones buffed but its ok we didnt get them
Me: i want capstones buffed and its not okay that were being left out

^ sums this all up

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Except there is literally data from the current raid and ST fights and its literally below middle of the pack. That’s not “exceptional”. At the beginning of the season they started off strong but due to a terrible 4 set other classes have left it in the dust.

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I think saying its solely because of dungeon design is a bit disingenuous. Even on just a static 5 mob pull, which is where fury should 100% shine, we don’t. We are still being overtaken at 5 targets and above. Also, now add in fury’s lack of BL, BR, party utility and it’s the same old song and dance for M+.

4 Likes
29

Honestly the issue isn’t exactly dungeon design, it’s spec design and the hamstrung mechanics fury is constrained by when it comes to it’s ability to deal with multiple targets.

To premise the problem lies solely with the meat cleaver mechanic and it’s lack of balance with fury’s toolkit.

Previous seasons where fury did well enough it had the capability of doing uncapped damage to enemies nearby it through abilities like Bladestorm or Odyn’s Fury which had some oomph behind them, frequent procs such as Wrecking Ball which gave a sizable amount of passive AoE potential that wasn’t constrained to just 5 targets.

This has now somewhat been split between the two hero talents where Slayer is more Cooldown focused and Thane provides more static with thunderclap/blast. However neither really shines as well as previous iterations of fury which had access to both types of damage profiles of solid burst and solid sustain.

Meat cleaver’s balance is also heavily hamstrung by fury’s ST capability. Realistically it’s a mechanic that’s long overdue for removal and Fury does need a sizable rework in the way it handles AoE so it’s not left in the dust almost every season. Yes some of that could be done in the class tree to provide utility options for all warrior specs, but the baseline of fury has so many missteps that they would need a decent help to bring them up to par with what is expected group performance wise in keys.

1 Like
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Only fury capstone ability you take is unhinged and SOMETIMES Depths of insanity. Storm of Steel is a meme, Onslaught is a meme, Unbridled Ferocity is a meme, Odyn’s Fury is so bad that you don’t even take it to line up with 45s Dragon’s Roar in AoE. Absolutely insane. We avoid spending points in our final tier in order to put points into Vicious Contempt for Light’s sake. Blizzard seems incapable of balancing fury to be even passable in AoE and ST at the same time meanwhile other specs get to be S tier in all types of content with only minor wrist slaps (Fire).

6 Likes
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Found the dev

2 Likes
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what you talking about , in PVP they are almost useless

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Hear, hear!

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yes our capstones are in very rough shape. It’s wild that we actively avoid them to use the points on lesser talents in the trees…

4 Likes
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Arms war dropped from one of rank 1 or 2 for M+ to rank 21. We also dropped from top 2-3 in raids to mid tier at best.