‘Obliterate the game’
giggles its not quite the rogue/warrior/mage power simulator. All power based feedback loops gain resistance over time.
Every class in vanilla is good and important in both pve and pvp.
A top tier wsg team requires every class for both horde and alliance. Same with raids, there is no class that can be skipped. Just some that you only want a few of (druid 1, hunter 1, warlocks 2, etc.) and that may change a tiny bit with the removal of debuff limit, but probably not very much.
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There’s literally a version of Vanilla available made specifically for this kind of design. But apparently that’s not enough.
By the way, Vanilla didn’t revolve around raiding. I know that’s impossible for players these days to understand.
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Oh comeon matey, at least accept that we’ve pretty much made our positions known.
I was trying to gently suggest that we are just making the same arguments as mankirks wife or why DM is not VC.
By including the reward stimulus I added a non-standard variation to the ‘no changes’ argument. As vanilla is as much a social power simulator as it is a player power feedback fix.
Every patch was based on a new raid though no? How was the game not focused on raiding at the forefront? Just like retail and seasonal pvp is a part of it. But clearly not the focal point.
Ony and MC were built in a really short amount of time like just a few days (not a joke)
They were literally tacked on a the last minute in contrast to the development cycle of “Vanilla”
The game itself was not actually intended to have “Raids” as you and I know them, it was however designed with the following in mind.
Leveling in world.
Questing.
Small scale dungeons roughly as we know them.
World PVP.
Battlegrounds.
Those are the points of focus for the WoW vanilla classes and if you use the original focus points to measure the classes they are actually ALL very good.
The failure mode in wow is balancing the classes around a “Raid” atmosphere and worse, in later versions using PVP specific tuning becuase devs are foolish and don’t consider to build classes for PVP then design the raids to match the classes…
Also “Big Boss Fights” that people worship are freaking bad design.
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The overly bright lightbulb has a point.
It needs a hat though, feels vaguely dangerous.
No
/10 char
Molten core: Patch 1.1.0 (2004-11-07): Added.
Battle Grounds: Patch 1.5.0 (2005-06-07): Alterac Valley and Warsong Gulch) added.
Blackwing Lair: Patch 1.6.0 (2005-07-12): Added
PvP has always been an after thought in wow. it was never meant to be organized that why it took 7 months to add instanced grouped PvP.
PvP in wow is so popular that they have added 11 battle grounds of varying group sizes and win requirements. 22 small arenas over the last 20 years.
PvE on the other hand has added 126 unique dungeons and 52 Raids. I did not count ZG and ZA as a dungeon and a raid only as a raid, I did not recount Naxx for the raids.
Even in Vanilla there was 3 BGs and 4 main raids and 2 catch up raids. end game and PvE were the major focus shift as it was something competitors really didn’t do and it was welcomed by the player base.
literal last second addin by the EQ players employed in the last year of development. Original Vanilla development was not including “Raid” as you know them.
This was actually planned out in early alpha and even talked about, just that it took time to deliver.
Because it is 100% disposable content.
Because you don’t need to have a ton of maps for PVP, just good ones.
again because you don’t need tons of maps, just good maps.
You’re very out of touch with Vanilla deisgn; something I have studied and interviewed OG Devs about. If you actually knew about Vanilla development your opinion would change and you would be personally upset but the idea that it is not a “Raid” first game, this is just what happened as EQ outside influence by their raiders corrupted WoW and look where it is now.
Right now, if all the WRONG sentiment you express were true then Retail would be amazing but its pure garbage that people do not want to play meanwhile YOU are here in the Vanilla Forums asking for changes to a game that needs none.
If you want changes play a different game that has them; SoD, CATA and Retail already exist for YOU.
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You know Retail is the most popular version of WoW?
You can go read the old discussions on thottbot between wow rep and testers.
They are discussing pvp from the very start, and even explain how they want to really think through the system before releasing official honor and such.
It was not an afterthought.
It was build on the warcraft universe, people were pvping hard in warcraft. That was literally the game beyond the campaign.
__
The issue with wow is they didn’t cater to the pvp after vanilla so a lot of the pvp players moved to games like dota, leagues, or shooters. But don’t forget when you look at vanilla and og dota, they are extremely similar. Same universe, both are high skill cap, and they are very smooth and extremely responsive - just as much as any modern game. The combat is good.
Today, vanilla wow is one of the best pvp games on the market. If blizzard play their cards right they could really get it to grow significantly with new players.
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This argument is silly. A single BG offers endless replay value. A single dungeon is cleared a half a dozen times and then its painful to run it a 7th time.
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I left the SOD forum to check out how you ‘start freshies’ are doing and find this! Hahahah
So, a bit off topic, but I think it would be interesting if they made a new classic +
SoD kind of gave sweeping changes to all classes; My original thinking with classic + was that they just buff some of the underperforming specs (ret pally, enhance shaman, for example) but they went and just made everything overpowered to the degree that it felt like classic and retail combined, somehow. It almost felt like playing retail on the classic world.
The bottom line is we didn’t need yet
Another
Classic restart
Period
It is amusing “We want fresh” yet then cry for changes to the game…
Meanwhile options for this exist in triplicate via SoD, Cata and Retail.
These people are locusts, not gamers.
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It has happened. On SoD. Play that rather than turn this into fresh SoD
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No changes to class balance at all.
Get over it or wait until TBC… or go play SoD!
It’s literally the classic content with the paladin you want! It’s right there!
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We have already proven that changes can and will happen.
Get used to it kid.