They need to give ret pallys the same rotation they have in SoD, and give them a taunt, Avenger shield and hammer of righteousness for Prot tanking. Basically make SoD pally the official vanilla pally. Pally is SoD is actually fun to play whereas vanilla Pally is the most scuffed class in the game.
Every class is Gated, by your logic. Prove me wrong by showing me the 40 warrior raid.
yes I know there was a 40 mage MC, but that was extreme niche
If you want to raid as ret pally, go play SoD, Cata or retail. Paladins have 3 very OP specs in PVP for vanilla, a single change can just break the game for the guys asking for changes on classes. If u dont like ret on vanilla as is now, dont play it or play other version.
How do you figure what I’m proposing is an overhaul?
I had considered that as I wrote it but I like the idea of this being a choice raid groups have to make. Being a Paladin has never been about yourself, it’s about what you bring to others. Losing out on melee buffs so you can bring 5% more damage to a caster group is a great choice because what you gain is more than what you lose.
If your goal is to look better on the damage meters, I can certainly understand why this would upset you. However, if your goal is to make Ret Paladins more desirable to groups and less of a liability when you bring them, you should consider that when promoting changes.
I know folks are all over changing Vanilla right now but let’s all try to remember the kind of RPG gameplay it represents…
I’m honestly not opposed to some balance changes. What i always wanted for Classic + was not SOD AT ALL.
i wanted vanilla systems, with dual spec, instant mail, buff/debuff limit and then just do basic class balance on the existing specs. Easier said than done ofc, but if you decide to buff one spec, you open the can of worms that you HAVE TO change all specs that are not considered viable in the general sense.
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If you dont want to play classic dont play classic… if you do than you should but making changea to everything means ita not classic.
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Ret pally is fine. It’s not supposed to be pure dps like some other classes. They bring buffs and heals to groups in addition to their dps. A true blue hybrid. Prob will have a spot for at least 1 in a raid. But there are gonna be hundreds of guilds and raid groups out there so ret pallys shouldn’t have a hard time getting into raiding.
Holy Shield is to Protadin as Shield Block is to Warrior. Its how they maintain uncrushable. Cant ditch it.
Make Judgement a 4s taunt when RF is active when you have 3/3 imp RF. Solved.
Wont happen though. Ret or Holy for PvP. 1 Ret for PvE for Nightfall otherwise Holy for PvE.
A lot of comments mention pvp being screwed if pally was buffed. I’m guessing that means classic is coded in a way where they can’t do pve only damage tuning?
If that weren’t the case, I think some minor number adjustments for pve only would be merited for a few specs. Spriest, ret pal, and balance druid come to mind. I don’t think replacing abilities and talents is the way to go here. That’s what SoD is for.
Brother you guys are great in PvP and are the longest lasting healers of vanilla. Your class has wins and losses, just like everyone else.
Enjoy your hardship while it’s here, it will not last forever.
put on your + healing dress and get in the corner healer
OP, you may not know, but there’s a thing called Season of Discovery that provides exactly what you seek.
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Retribution will be viable after phase 4, around February next year. When it moves to tbc.
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Play SoD, it has literally everything you are asking for, Ret Pally, SPriest, and Shaman all given significant buffs to bring them in line with other dps and all 3 are overpowered in PvP to the point the SoD forum is full of whiners begging for nerfs 
they’re not making class changes 
be happy you’re getting muh dual speck
Very unlikely to happen. You’ll have to raid as holy and have ret as your 2nd pvp spec. If I were playing paladin this run I’d level as ret and once I’m 60, have holy as main spec and reckadin spec as my 2nd for funsies. Ret is busted once you get to TBC and you can watch your big numbers then.
Welcome to the cloth healing healer class. sad but that’s the way it was back then. at least you don’t stand arround casting kings or might while the raid is fighting the boss.
I knew people would look at Fresh and miss SoD quality of life for specs, but I could not expect it would be THAT fast.
Weren’t many of you all hyped up for Fresh while ignoring the (obvious) problems of Base Vanilla, including unviable specs? The only answer for your plea is “Go play SoD”.
Is this a Fresh Classic post? Idk if you know this but Fresh Classic 2024 edition is not going to change your whole class around. And this experiment has already been activated and is still ongoing, it’s called “World of Warcraft Classic: Season of Discovery”
The “Go Play SoD” response it silly. SOD will be coming to and end soon.
I think the hate, rejection and gate-keeping many specs face in Classic WoW is as vital and important an issue as Dual-Spec, Buff/De-Buff, and Booning Buffs ones.
No one needs a overhaul. Just simple adjustments. Very minor. I don’t understand why other classes are so upset over it tbh