I’ve been silently screaming all season because there is basically no time in any M+ dungeon to dig into damage. I am constantly pressing other buttons, mostly stops, dispels, and on-GCD defensives (despite mage having a ton of defensives I’m constantly out of them)
Then, either stuff in dungeons dies near as fast as a leveling normal, or by the time mobs have enough health to not die so fast then you have to lay out your defensives on a spreadsheet.
I do think one of the biggest culprits causing this is the botched job Blizzard did on trying to spread damage out over time more. Somehow this instead wound up being the most one-shotty season ever, still. Well, two shots – because just about any two spam casts will kill me on anything above a 10.
And the thing is you can’t see who the spam casts are targeting without addons, so I will put it out there that the way that the game is designed, you are not going to time 12’s if you don’t have addons, and a healthy amount of weakauras/plater/etc to tell you that you are being targeted by a spell.
Maybe it is just that I am a clothie. Every dungeon I run there are moments where I have to dump all my defensives and stops just to survive, and then I don’t have something effective for when I’m “supposed” to use a defensive like on a boss AOE ability. But I -had- to use it on the spam casts or I would have died.
Ultimately I’m not having fun this season, I’m sick of the stress of staying alive. It’s very annoying to die to invisible things WHILE rotating defensives and dodging everything, but two throw fleshes and I’m dead without any in-game warning (aside from my addons).
M+ has lost its way. It used to be way more fun, pulling a ton of stuff and doing big damage. Frantically fighting to stay alive vs a one-pack pull just isn’t the same, it’s not fun for me.
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I’ve found plenty of time to blast this season. Sounds like you’re pugging and your groups aren’t equally contributing to add control and or group wide dr’s. Interrupt’s are off the GCD, most classes only get one GCD spent on aoe cc every 30-40s, lots of time to blast in between.
Aside from CoT and Grim Batol being tuned far higher than the other keys (GB timer sucks as well), I honestly don’t mind m+ this season. It’s not revolutionary but no sanguine or explosive affix is heaven. The scaling does hit hard above 12 though.
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For example, the first room of stonevault it is customary to pull the entire hallway and lust.
What that means for me is that I am doing about 3 curse dispels, supernova, blast wave, and a defensive while lust is up. I do 3 curse dispels because shifting power gives me another one quickly.
This sucks for me because I do a tiny amount of damage outside of cooldowns and my big CD is about 13 globals (depending on haste). In this hallway I am losing 4 globals, so about 1/3rd of my damage.
Grim batol is much in the same way. The first lust pull has that knockback and a ton of stops necessary. Then halfway through the dungeon I’m using decurse on CD so more like losing 3 of the 13 globals I get to actually do damage.
DK doesn’t have externals like that so you don’t need to worry about dispels the same way. You are also lucky that one of your big CC’s (abom limb) is also a damage ability. I’m not bringing up movement here in a large degree because I have learned to move while being a hard-caster and lose downtime. But it is a LOT of effort.
I believe a big part of it is whether one is playing a class with external stuff like dispel (and dispel is one of the biggest culprits here). A hunter won’t really care about this.
But yes I pug, and if I don’t play like this then the group wipes almost always. Oh and if I die, then the group usually will wipe because nobody is doing mechanics!
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Aside from grouping packs after tank has aggro, limb is pretty irrelevant, sure it does damage but not a lot.
Between sleet, proactive ams to avoid targeted dots, grip for interrupts when kicks are down, focus interrupt, dropping amz for group wides, or running vs for group ams, and pet stun, there are plenty of things I’m doing on most pulls.
Hunter can also do plenty of stuff, between bursting shot, imp + bind shot combo for stuns, dispel/remove enrage on targets, kiting for tank with traps, focus interrupts, clutch freezing trap for interrupts, dispel poisons and disease on feign, mechanic prevention via turtle (tentacle removal on eudrax, ball soak on coalgamation).
Like, a ton of class have a LOT of utility, and still blast. I think you’re making a mountain out of this one…
You should use it more, it is really powerful. You can step to the side of the pack away from the mob that is casting for CC
It’s been annoying the living crap out of me all season. It was worse in 11’s and below
Moving outside the pack to pull one target is a DPS loss with limb, ungrouping adds is terrible for the group. I use limb all the time, thanks. Also, individual grips are way better at this as it’s not going to pull a random target like limb.
Sounds like you’re playing with a lot of people who have no idea how to properly utilize their kit, use an interrupt tracker, and actively participate in group control.
Again, plenty of time to blast, and doing everything under the sun really shouldn’t fall on you/a single player.
Mountain out of molehill.
I’ll admit, my favorite iteration of M+ was BFA S4 where I had the % damage on health corruptions stacked and Freehold was just like 7 pulls that you absolutely BLASTED to the ground. lol
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By “silently screaming” do you mean “spamming the forums nonstop”? And you talk like you’re doing M+ all the time and know all these strategies but I don’t think you’re actually doing keys at all, just watching YT.
Edit: Looks like you got a few 12s done in the last couple of weeks.
The group wiping is even more of a dps loss. You also don’t need to move that far, and you don’t need to get out of melee range. And since you only wiggled a little the pack stays grouped.
This is very true. It’s pugs. They may know what to do but don’t do it because they figure someone else will, and they want to parse.
Again, it’s not a mountain, it is something that actively annoys me about M+. It is constructive feedback saying “this isn’t as fun as you think it is”
It sounds like you’re not pugging, and you have coordinated kicks etc. That’s great for you, but not everyone is so lucky. I’d rather TIME the key and do less damage.
That was my favorite season of all time. Ugh I miss that!
I looked at one of your logs and you cast blinding light four times over the course of a key. It has a 1.5m CD, you’re just letting the group carry you. And why are you 3rd in DPS losing to a spriest? Ret is the easiest spec in the game and doing crazy damage
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I pug every week and play with a group on evenings we’re all around. 2600-2800 bracket players are incredibly unreliable in terms of contributing to cc and group play. Theres normally a stark difference if im doing some 10s to fill vault with pugs that have alts above 3k, theres never a lot of missed interrupts, over abundance of CC, and absolutely everything gets “blasted” with zero group communication or comms.
I haven’t bothered to push since SL, and I exclusively did that through pugging. It is absolutely no different from the current season, the higher keys get the more coordination is required and that’s incredibly difficult while pugging without exceptional players.
Plenty of time to blast, just like any previous season as keys get higher.
This is very true, agreed.
The amount of dispels that are mandatory has changed significantly since SL. I am actually looking forward to Theatre of Pain over what we have right now. But I think I am learning from this thread that specifically dispels are what pushes it over the edge past challenge into annoyance. If I were just worried about CC’s that would not be nearly so bad.
Again, as a DK you don’t have dispel. Hunters don’t have a friendly dispel. This is a part of the game you don’t see unless you have a second toon with dispels.
Enjoy your echo chamber I guess.
Sounds like you’re projecting here.
I’m just not going to pretend one class has it worse than another when it comes to contributing to the group, nor that this season is any different when it comes to high keys and coordination.
Alright sounds like you think Blizzard does a perfect job balancing between classes, while you play a meta spec. We’ll have to agree to disagree
I play unholy, check yourself.
lol cute. Unholy and Frost DK are neck and neck. If Frost didn’t exist Unholy would take its spot and arguably Unholy is better in the 13/14 range you’re running right now because you don’t need as much boss damage as in title-level keys
Imagine saying you don’t need boss damage in high keys with a straight face when the most meta thing in keys is enh + frost with massive priority/st burst on top of aoe.
Keep projecting. Echo 
chamber
Now you’re twisting my words. I said:
I did not say boss damage was unimportant in high-level keys, but actually the opposite. I said it is MORE important in TITLE level keys than the keys you are running, because you are not at the title level.
Arguably, since you are already running with enha, it can make sense to have an AOE spec in there too for 13’s and 14’s.
You don’t understand what an echo chamber is. An echo chamber is when everyone is agreeing, yet you’re the most vocal one here and disagreeing. your argument is that the dispels aren’t so bad, when you don’t have any dispels.
Sounds like you’re out of fight, and just trying to change what I said and attack me personally because you have no more points to make.
Don’t let the door hit you on the way out!
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It’s an echo chamber because you’re only here to find someone to agree with you, and you’re upset that no one came to whine alongside you because your premise is false.
Then you go off on personal attacks because you’re now deflecting. On top of that you keep making assumptions that simply aren’t true.
There are people within title range not playing meta specs, and you don’t need to. It’s easier with a prot pally, or an enhance sure. But absolutely none of that all of the sudden excludes players or any class from having to: cc, dispel, decurse, send group wide drs, send personal drs, immune mechanics, displace adds and so on. All classes bring unique elements to a group, success or failure is not the sole responsibility of a singular player. Stop pretending it is. Or the more likely scenario, you keep on whining about something thats been the same in high keys since forever.