Not saying they were good for the game, I am saying that dual spec would have 0 effect on you. No one would force you to buy it or use it.
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If you’re not saying that, then you can’t take the “Blizz can do no wrong” approach to the argument of changes.
Everybody I play with would be using it, therefore it affects my experience.
It also completely changes the dynamic between gold and player drastically compared to real TBC.
Farming is a part of older WoW. I get that you hate it, but that’s why you log out when you’re not raiding, and why other players who actually do put in the effort, find themselves respeccing frequently regardless of the barriers.
You have to earn that privilege. Why should you freely be able to afford (at zero cost or effort) something that others already do put in a good amount of effort to do regularly? What makes you so special that your desire to be lazy should be satisfied?
I have plenty of gold because I don’t use it on respecs. I am not asking for free dual spec, I would pay for it. Respeccing is not the gold sink you think it is because a lot of players just don’t do it. As for farming, it’s near impossible on my horde controlled server. Just personal experience but I don’t know of anyone that respecs as often as you claim. Its not that I can’t afford to respec, its that I choose not to and when my sub expires in a month I am not sure the game is worth renewing at this point. It looks like I will just need to wait it out until Wrath.
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That’s your prerogative. You’re making a choice. You like your gold more than your desire to respec. That’s part of the choice that Blizzard wanted you to make.
Also mentioning that dual spec has a cost is pointless, it’s value proposition is so far and beyond it’s actual cost to unlock. Make dual spec 100,000g to unlock and maybe I’ll see your point.
I’ve never argued the angle that it’s value as a “gold sink” is why we should not have dual spec. I know some have, but it’s one of the lesser-focused reasons.
If you quit the game because you can’t dual spec, there’s 2 realizations you have to make:
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You made a poor decision to even start playing because you already knew it was not a TBC feature, and thus, would likely be an uphill battle get the game modified in the direction you want it.
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The game just isn’t for you. If you don’t enjoy the game, that’s fine, and there’s absolutely nothing wrong with that. However, others do enjoy the game, just the way it is, and you don’t get to act like the changes you want are the changes everybody wants. There’s no rule that says you’ve been forced to play TBCC up to this point, despite knowing it wouldn’t have dual spec.
This is like if you died too much in Dark Souls and instead of spending a little time practicing (farming gold) in order to beat the boss (access respecs freely without concern for gold), you spent that time on the Dark Souls forum begging the devs to make the boss easier to kill.
So naturally, players like me who like the current dynamic don’t look favorably on your requests to change the game for all of us to suit you.
I’ll tell you what, I’d be in favor of a dual-spec activated TBC+ server that you get a one-way transfer to, and you can never come back to TBCC unless you roll a new character. OK?
They matter just as much with Dual Spec. You still have to pay 50g to respec each spec.
The only difference is the choice you are making are the subtleties between your PvP spec or PvE spec and your desired playstyle (This is a choice that is meaningful in an RPG)
Instead of now where your choice is whether to log on farm gold for 30 minutes to an hour to see if you want to do Arena in between raid days OR stay logged off in between raid days (This is not a meaningful choice in an RPG).
One choice is good for the game, the other kills participation.
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Yeaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah this doesn’t track.
A vast majority of players get everything they need out of the 2 trees they are given. This is why they eventually removed talent trees and the respective fee 1 expansion later (after Cataclysm). The fee had become redundant at that point, incredibly rare for any player to actually be faced with because it was just unnecessary.
It’s not meaningful if there’s no barrier to swapping between them. You are essentially both at all times pending your whims.
Also, as Blizz states, the circumstances in which this an issue for people who need to respec specifically for PvP is simply not significant enough. They said this back then, and there’s not really much of a case to say that much has changed today when there are actually a lot less players playing TBCC now than there was then.
People who can’t farm the gold to participate either don’t deserve to participate, or should stay in their PvP specs.
If they don’t add this after so many other changes that would be the reason I would quit. As you yourself has stated this is not TBC as we expected and seeing changes that only help certain people and not the game as a whole is a problem.
Exactly, it is not the TBC I remember. I remember being busy doing things all the time. Now I have been sitting around waiting for the next release of content. My participation in the game has been declining lately for these very reasons.
Once again gold is not an issue for me…
So you like boosts, the removal of faction identity with same faction BGs and paladin seals, but a change that would make the game better for everyone you are against.
This would come with WoW tokens so you would get more changes that you don’t like because Blizzard wouldn’t want the bots getting all the money for gold to buy this.
So you would want to play on empty servers?
A few of you keep saying this as a counter-argument but it’s just blatantly not true, and you know it.
The entire reason you want dual spec is to circumvent the gold cost. Therefore, gold is the issue. Can we at least put this one behind us?
Okay, where did I say I liked boosts? Where did I say I liked FvF? I was against those as well.
In any case, mentioning other changes, as has been made clear plenty of times, does not distinctly justify dual spec’s addition.
What??
We disagree on what the population would look like between the two. That isn’t even to suggest that “authenticity-slanted” TBCC servers would be way more populated, but I think you’re way over-estimating the need for dual spec especially at the level that you want it (where you’re going to quit if they don’t add it).
Just so you know, Fuzzydice, Zipzo thinks that pro-Dual Spec people are the same as people imposing Sharia Law. He said so here:
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It really isn’t but you really want it to be.
Because I have seen so many changes to this point that it doesn’t make sense to not add it. I would not say I am quitting, I taking the advice of so many in the thread and waiting until wrath to get it. I just don’t see paying and playing the game at this point without it.
There’s a simple methodology here we can follow.
- If respeccing was free, would you be doing it more to your desires?
IF YES: Gold is your issue.
IF NO: Gold is maybe not your issue, depending on the reasons why you wouldn’t.
Think of it like spilling wine on a carpet.
Still a perfectly good carpet, and the stain can’t come out, unfortunately.
Does it mean I drench the entire carpet in wine because, well, why not? It’s already got a bit of wine stain so might as well stain the whole thing?
My answer would be no, all things are worth preserving, regardless of how many changes they do make.
If you stain the carpet too much, it’s then just a shadow of its former self, and not reminiscent of the carpet you originally bought.
Its not that simple. Its more than just spending 50g twice a week, you can make this if the only thing you did was the cooking and fishing dailies each day. My current stock pile of gold is from doing those and the spirit tower daily and the BG daily. I am herb and LW for professions, herb on my horde populated server is difficult until we get swift flight form.
Well I guess with all the current changes my rug is ready to be thrown out. I’ll wait for the new rug to come out call Wrath.
Isn’t it?
The respec fee only asks of you 50g each time. It’s not asking for you to sign a contract to do X amount of farming or commit Y amount of exposure to potential world PvP (which is also completely irrelevant to those on PvE servers I might add).
You have ways to have the gold to do it, but the message I’m getting here is that getting gold on your server is hard because PvP? Am I interpreting this correctly?
Only you can really make that choice for yourself. Everybody has their preferences. Some people want to throw a rug out with only a tiny stain on the corner, some will tolerate it until it’s blotched all over like a cheap facebook market purchase.
Personally, the carpet isn’t stained enough to have me unsub yet, but it doesn’t mean I’m OK with adding more stains in the mean time lol. I’d just be pushing myself further towards my own disenfranchisement with the game, so of course I will argue against others who want to stain it.
I realize that the people pushing for said stain, don’t see it as a stain. They see it as like, a garnish that serves to make the carpet better (in this example).
“I know you’re telling me differently, but I’m going to keep acting like you’re lying because it is so much more beneficial when you hold a position I want you to hold rather than the position you actually hold.”
Zipzo struggles with the value of just sheer convenience.
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Zipzo is incredibly dishonest, Fuzzydice. If he can’t manipulate you into seeing his way, he’ll eventually start getting personal and insulting. And when that doesn’t work, he’ll try harder until he ignores you calls you a lost cause.
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Yes, I said you can easily get the gold to respec twice a week by only doing the cooking and fishing dailies.
You are right I see it making the game better and I would even queue for some BGs and maybe even participate in arena but none of that is worth it to me to do the entire process of respeccing. I know you want the gold to be the issue but is a bigger inconvenience than just gold.
On my server its not world pvp anymore its horde being groups and killing every alliance they see. Since its irrelevant to PVE servers though who cares, am I right? That makes the game better…
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Well how would you feel about adding LFD for alliance side on PvP servers?
Just pick a change that would naturally compel you to slightly reel back with the “ew no” vibe, and then just consider that this is the emotion some of us get when dual spec is mentioned.
BTW: I see a lot of hidden replies, which indicates my merry band of loyal followers must be constantly pestering you with their input on how to debate with me or linking my old quotes as justification for why I’m not being honest with you or w/e, but I assure you, I’m a real person who doesn’t want dual spec in TBCC.
How would LFD help me in the open world? What does LFD have to do with dual spec?
There is no one supplying their input for my responses. I assure you, I am a real person who really wants dual spec in TBCC.
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Now stop trying to change the subject, you keep claiming that dual spec will have an adverse affect to your gameplay experience yet you have no provided in which way it will.
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It’s a loaded question. He will immediately follow this up with something else geared to trick you into saying something that appears contradictory. If you don’t fall for it, that’s when he starts getting upset.
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