Yes, fun is subjective, but it’s objective in stating that dps is more enjoyable for the masses in wow due to the obvious visibility of an extreme over influx of dps, and in Lich King with dual spec, we still had 20+ minute queues for instances due to the, still lack of tanks, even in the expansion with another tank class, and watching classic warrior in fury prot refuse to tank because it lowered their dps and forced them into a role they didn’t want to be in, which was the tank role.
If tank was objectively fun for the general player, then you’d see tanks everywhere, but you don’t, because it isn’t fun for the general player.
Any queue less than an hour is a vast improvement over the queues in BC for dps. Wrath was by far the best expansion for my dps alts because of dual spec and the lfd.
Yes, it’s not. But adding additional hurdles makes it even less fun. Needing to respec to have fun doing anything but tanking or healing dungeons causes even fewer people to pick those roles
You wait over an hour as dps? Also, it was only 20 minutes because it was cross server for LFD. That said, even cross server, it took 20 minutes on average to find a single tank.
You had me in the first half, not going to lie.
Thank you for agreeing.
No that’s cope. If someone was going to play tank or healer, they would.
Let’s break it down. We have 9 classes, and only 3 of those can tank. Starting with Paladin, let’s be honest, no one plays ret. Even Savix, the ret main, was complaining about ret on the PTR. So if your Paladin isn’t already tank or healer, then they are not switching off of ret at this point. Warrior, a dead class compared to Classic in terms of players, the class known for toxic greed of every item to boost their dps by any means necessary. If they aren’t prot at this point, you’ll never convince them to go prot. I can garuntee that the fury warrior will respec into arms or fury for pvp, not prot for pve if given dual spec. Finally, Druid. These masochists farmed pre raid bis in classic and for what? If tank, told to reroll warrior, if dps, told to reroll warrior, if resto, told to reroll warrior. Feral is pretty streamlined where bear and cat talents are almost identical, so your cat can already go bear without dual spec. Good luck convincing the space chicken to respec after dealing with being a meme for 2 years, and if I learned anything about resto druids, they craved tree form. Good luck convincing them to respec to tank.
I’d give you, at best, 10% of those three classes in total to respec to tank if dual talents come out. You’d see the healers get a dps dual spec or a healing variant for pvp, the tanks would 100% have a non tank dual spec, and the dps would more than likely go to a pvp variant or healer, as raids require more healers than tanks, and I doubt most people would base their decision off of the tank shortage for instances.
Even then, let’s say a substantial amount of people do dual spec into tank for instances, you’d see more tanks for what, 2, maybe 3 weeks? Then what? They aren’t needed in raids, and they’re done with the instances, so are they just going to keep tank as their dual spec? Doubtful.
tldr; you’re just full of cope because you can’t do instances 2 months into TBC when no one else wants to do instances and you think dual spec will solve the problem when it won’t.
Again you mistakenly think every one would do exactly what you do. I would love to heal on my druid but am unwilling to give up the rest of the game to do it. As soon as dual spec was added in wrath I started to heal on my druid. For me resto druid is the worst spec to have fun questing or farming. Less fun than doing it on a holy priest. There are many warriors and paladins that say the same thing. They spec dps because there is no dual spec but some would tank if it was added
There are lots of instances still being done in BC on my server. It’s not a rush to end game server. I do runs every night on my healer but rarely on my dps alts. Because there’s a shortage of healers and tanks. Even a small improvement in the number of tanks and healers would lessen the queue times. I would dual spec to heal on my druid if I could and that would be one more healer in the queue.
Permanence is a big deal in RPGs in general, and MMOs are no exception. It adds weight to the choices you make with a given character. Honestly, I’d be fine with respecs being even less readily available. But that won’t happen, which is fine.
It’s kind of like D2’s system vs D3’s. In the former, respeccing is really kind of a pain. And you only have a finite number of respecs, IIRC. In the latter, you can do it anytime, anywhere (outside of combat). In the former, your FoH paladin is a FoH paladin, and that’s what you purpose-built that character to do from the ground up. In the latter, you’re a crusader and you have access to all the same skills as every other crusader and maybe you have some items that make certain skills better but you’re still just a crusader.
Paraphrased from my Druid friend. “As long as you have like some cat gear, resto is pretty easy to solo play as.”
I don’t doubt that some would go tank, but then what. Like I said.
They’d just keep their second talent tree as a dead tree because they aren’t doing instances anymore? Lol k. This isn’t retail, there is no benefit given to tanks or healers by the game by being a tank or healer. Once those instances are obsolete, I can guarantee that most of those “tanks” are respec’ing into something not tank as their second tree.
Ignore Feywaif. It’s THAT kind of internet dweller that changes numbers, arguments, and constantly make stuff up to try and win internet arguments. Yes, that kind person.
Jeez are you dense. Fun is subjective. That you can find someone who has fun playing a certain way doesn’t mean it’s fun for everyone.
You just can’t grasp the fact that some people play the game for fun. I do dungeon runs long after I have all the gear from the dungeon. Just for fun or because it’s a more fun way to get gold then farming. In wrath I’d heal normal dungeons even after I was in raid gear. Just to help out the newer players just leveling up. Yes, some, probably most, players are gear driven and don’t do anything if there’s no gear in it for them but there’s enough of us here for the fun of it that dual spec would make a difference in finding a tank or healer for a group
You know what’s not fun? Flying the same circle in Netherstorm mining ore and slurping up mana nodes for 6-8 hours, but epic flying aint going to buy itself, and these enchants and gems aint going to buy themselves either, so guess what I do. I go fly in circles for hours on end.
You want a serotonin hit for farming? Then respec and farm more than 100g for that farm session if resto farming is not fun, since that was the core of why you want dual spec, so you can farm as not resto.
You’re mad that you have to do unfun things in a game built on tedious and monotonous grinding.
Literally everyone plays this game because they find it fun in some way. You call me dense but think I don’t have fun in a game that I’ve played for 15 years? That’s dense.
Then why do you need to respec? We just found your solution, you want gold, you like the money made from instances, you want to play resto, and you like healing instances which makes gold.
So why do you need dual spec again?
Don’t care.
Don’t care.
Yes, you understand why most players play this game, which brings me back to my previous point that dual spec will not help the lack of tanks or, somehow in your case, lack of healers. Players, for the most part, already know what they like. I went into classic and TBC knowing I’d only play rogue, because it’s what I loved for the previous 15 years. Even those that say, started in Legion, more than likely already knew what they wanted, even if it was just the role they wanted to fill. Dual spec will not magically gift you hundreds upon hundreds of tanks to instantly get into a group with. All it will do is populate the pvp side, which I support, and see more dps off spec into healing for raids. Why? Because most players do it for gear, not to help players through instances that they have no need to run.
Nope, that’s cope. It didn’t happen in Lich King, it didn’t happen in Cata, it didn’t happen in MoP, it didn’t happen in WoD when they added literal bonuses to tanks and healers, and it hasn’t happened in literally every single expansion onwards. TBC, with an already lower playerbase than retail, will not be some magical world where tanks just suddenly now exist due to dual spec, especially with only 3 tanking classes, compared to retails 6.
No, I’ll make the choice that’s the most fun for me. I’ll spec my druid dps and never heal dungeons until dual spec comes out. There are lots of us who make choices like that and it contributes to the tank and healer shortage. Do you see how different people have a different idea of what is fun and make different choices?
It did happen in Wrath. It was much easier for my dps alts to find groups in Wrath. I quit in Cata and MoP so I don’t know what happened in those expansions.
But you have said multiple times that resto farming is not fun, so respec and make it fun.
You have also said you find healing fun, and you like helping people, and you want to do instances, and instances make you money. It literally lines up with what you want in every regard.
So no, you don’t want dual spec for farming, you want dual spec because you want dual spec, and are currently making low tier reasons to convince me and others that you need dual spec when in all reality, you just want dual spec.
That’s fine by me.
Hopefully we’re waiting about 2 years for that.
Fixed it for you.
Nope, it’s still just cope. Something something we’ve watched this shortage exist since dual spec existed in Lich king and it never changed.
Listen old man, talking to me like I’m Chris Chan when I came up with 2 solutions to your problem that you only want to sit back and complain about is honestly disheartening. I’m sorry you’re mad that I’m not just jumping up and crying out that “This resto druid can’t farm despite there being a plethora of ways to make money, most of which don’t even require any specific spec of talents since they’re professions”, which reminds me, 3 solutions.
20-40 minute queues for random instances with a pool of players from multiple servers is not the same thing as specifically looking for a tank for one specific instance on one of the two difficultly modes, one of which is gatekept behind reputation, on a single server.
You understand what I said right?
Cross server, multiple instances, teleportation DOES NOT EQUAL single server, specific instance, specific gate kept reputation to access, non teleported.
The former still had a 20-40 minute queue, meanwhile I can get a heroic going within 20-30 minutes myself most of the time, yet you, the healer, have to wait an hour?
Maybe not. But there will be a world where other parts of the game will have more players where there wasnt which is nothing but a good thing. There is zero negatives for having players engaged with the game and keeping it alive. There are many negatives with people just raid logging with a single spec.
For example, I plan to stop doing battlegrounds all together in a few days when I get my last piece of honor gear. I have zero reason to return. I would love to go back and ge ta resto set for my shaman but since I don’t have a dual spec I’m not going to do it. I’ll just do 10 games of arena per week and log off.
Don’t need to. This is the point you need to understand because this is exactly what dual spec solves. Nobody thinks a million tanks are going to spawn out of nowhere, but you will see players doing other content they wouldnt normally be doing which is what keeps the game going.
You’ll notice that pretty much all the noobs demanding dual spec have arguments which can be resumed to: “we want dual spec because we can’t cope.” But they won’t directly say it because Dunning-Kruger.