You can rez and defend IB graveyard within 10 seconds on a mount because the cave is ridiculously close to it. How do you suggest that we hold IB graveyard? I cap it in many games to try and split up the horde, but it rarely does anything asides from aggravate a few players.
Most alliance players /afk when they realize the game is going to go beyond 30 minutes. It’s a complete waste of time to be in there and damn near impossible to win unless you are dominating every aspect of the match. People that want honor are better off getting a 15 minute debuff and joining a new game. People that want to have fun don’t even bother going in there. You’re basically left facing guys that just don’t care or know any better.
There are many problems for the Alliance in AV. Premades were able to remedy some of these problems, but not all of them. First, all the gys are easier to defend (except maybe fwgy and sfgy) if you are going north and extraordinarily difficult to defend if you are going south.
AS and RH are approximately even as far as the ability to defend or assault it goes.
SPGY is at an enormous disadvantage because you not only spawn in a choke point, but the horde can surround us from every direction as soon as we spawn, including above us where we can’t get to them unless we fight through a choke point that is more than likely horde controlled, and if it isn’t horde controlled, we have to fight through a second choke point, the bend around sfgy towards icewing bunker, that is horde controlled, and if it isn’t, we have to fight through a third choke point at icewing bunker that is horde controlled. Usually, at this point it is better to gravewalk to AS and try to get around the choke at Icewing.
SHGY is one of our least defensible gys, making it nearly impossible for us to keep it. We spawn inside of a choke point where the horde can easily surround the exit from every direction and we can’t group up to get out because that would allow the horde to push in on us, which would take less than 30 seconds, and they would have it capped by then. Once SHGY is capped, the game is essentially over. The reason is that no one wants to group up to try to move south again. Everyone either afks or goes into the icewing bunker choke one at a time, feeding the horde honor.
IBGY has a choke point coming from south and that is the only way to get to it. Also, the towers fire down on Alliance attempting to get through the choke point as well as horde being able to fire down from the ridge and through the mountain to us. Defending IBGY is also difficult because the horde cave is less than a 30 second ride from us, where our reinforcements are riding more than a minute to get to us. If the horde take SHGY at this point, there is no way to recover, as our reinforcements will be choked out at icewing bunker and if they aren’t, they will be much too far to reinforce us at ibgy in time. It doesn’t help that the horde are respawning 20 at a time instead of 10 since they are in their cave.
FWGY is easy for us to defend because it is the only gy where there’s a choke point from the Horde coming into the Alliance. However, if we cap FWGY first, the horde recall and there is another choke point going into RH that we can’t get through, 40(A) v 15(H). That is partially on us though because the alliance don’t understand the concept of pushing through. They want to fight on the front line, let the healers live, and let the horde continuously pour into us from RH with full health.
RH is somewhat easy for us to defend once we get on the recall spot, but we can’t go completely inside dreks hut like the horde can. The horde can literally walk all the way inside our building and kill recallers with ease. If the alliance attempt to walk past the hallway, we would pull everything inside the building. That is a major advantage that horde have over alliance as far as defending the boss goes. Three horde can sit inside drek’s hut and the alliance would need at least 15-20 inside our base with multiple healers or your full raid can just get inside and wipe us. Because of this, recalling for horde is far more advantageous than recalling for alliance. It doesn’t help that the horde recaller’s are able to help other recallers get inside while alliance recallers can’t do this because there aren’t enough of us and even if there are, we can’t retreat inside to heal and mana up because you can come inside and continue to attack us.
Towers. Horde towers are extremely difficult to maneuver in and there’s no way to LoS someone when you’re in it, except to hide in the flag room, where ranged have no chance at defending themselves from melee. Horde are able to keep our bunkers and defend them from our whole raid with 5 people because the only way for us to get in is to pass the choke at the bottom, then we can get attacked the whole way up to the flag, then the horde can los us around every pillar. Oh, did I mention you can’t attack people inside the building through the wall? Well, horde can attack alliance through the wall to the flag room, forcing us to group up in the middle on the flag to avoid it. So, in summary, horde towers are much harder to defend because horde attempting to retake the towers are LoS’d to us until they are in the flag room, where the exact opposite is true in our bunkers.
Now, the alliance could overcome all of this, and have before in premades, because… we were able to communicate. That’s all premades were. However, if you post a link invite to a discord server IN BG CHAT!!! less than 5 people join. It will hopefully get better when all the complete losers who only do av for rep and have no pvp knowledge (or the will to gain any) get exalted with Stormpike Guard. Not saying people going for rep are losers btw, I’m saying people who are trying to get PVP loot AND not learning how to PVP are losers. ahem alliance rankers ahem
Also, there are full blown arguments in chat about what we should do, ending with no one clearly saying one thing. The problem is absolutely with the players in this regard. Whenever I try to lead a game, I first start by posting a discord link. After no one joins, I attempt to use bg chat. I’m met with people either "/laugh"ing at me for trying to lead, people arguing that the strategy won’t work (the strategy, btw, that I have won almost every premade game with (not 6 minute “rush drek kek” strat either)), or people just straight up ignoring me. The arguments are the most annoying because it actively removes people from playing instead of just doing as I say. I understand “don’t blindly follow a leader” but arguing for 5 minutes about whether we should try for ibgy or sfgy is not going to work.
If there wasn’t amazing gear for being exalted with the Stormpike Guard, alliance would win a lot more av matches, because almost everyone running av would have a common goal, either win or get as much honor as possible for a loss. The biggest problem is that is takes alliance so long to get rep for SPG because we lose 99% of the time and we can’t even get all the lieutenants and commanders sometimes, even with sending a team south with explicitly the goal of killing them.
This isn’t all of the problems in AV, but it is quite a few of them.
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you are correct the alliance doesnt try to win. After being beaten down for what…2? 3 weeks? I rather just give up, get the random Hks i can, and move on. maybe a rogue team can clear out a few Lts so i can get some bonus honor while Wpvp is slim pickings and Wsg groups have died down. other than that ive given up all hope of a win from losing constantly and im sure quite a few alliance are thinking the same way.
We can’t as long as horde rez in their cave that’s so close to IBGY. If alliance contest it but die, we rez at SHGY on the other side of the map. If horde die, they rez at the cave, which is almost as good as rezzing at the gy. If horde rezzed at FWGY, we’d see a different result a lot of times.
As long as the horde cave is where it is, alliance have a much harder battle to win in AV.
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I agree the cave needs to be moved, that is in a future timeline. However I have seen time and time again where Alliance have gotten IBGY and cave still in currently location and Horde can’t get it back. Example today, the Alliance got IBGY after spending 30 minutes holding Horde at SHGY. After 60 minutes of match time, the Horde lost. So Horde just wasted 2 1/2 hours for 1 battleground for about 3k objective honor, Alliance 4100k objective honor.
There is a rational explanation and it has everything to do with the design of the middle of the map.
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The horde cave is incredibly close to IB graveyard. It takes maybe 10 seconds to support IB graveyard if you die with it contested. Also, you can’t even accidently run by the graveyard because there is only one path to go. This means that oblivious players are accidently going to the perfect place without even thinking for themselves. You’ll eventually win the graveyard back unless the alliance are literally farming you. That should never happen in pug vs. pug.
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The choke point at SH/Icewing is advantageous once you cap SH. The choke point at IB/IBT is advantageous for the team defending IB graveyard from attackers from the NORTH. Horde spawn in the cave to the SOUTH if they die at IB graveyard so the choke point means nothing when alliance have the flag contested. That cave is ~10 seconds from IB graveyard. Stormpike to SH graveyard is close to a minute.
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The horde reach stonehearth at the same time that the alliance does when the game begins. We are ALREADY defending and you control the center of the map to start the game.
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I don’t even think it is worth explaining how useless SH bunker is. The location of the bunker on the map does nothing meaningful. IBT is destructive.
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Balinda is terrible. I think a warlock could solo her.
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Once the middle of the map is lost, there is little to no chance to recover anything without some miraculous overwhelming force. That means that the alliance stop caring if SH graveyard is gone because we can just get in a new game instantly. In other words, there is a psychological effect to capping SH which is equivalent to us surrendering and moving on with life.
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See 1-5 to explain why #6 is easy to accomplish.
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Play both sides and you will know instantly that horde have huge advantages in AV, no reason to even debate this, especially if you’ve never played on alliance side.
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