I agree with you that casual PvP feels dead for those that don’t have the gear. If you could get a full set of fully upgraded honor gear, it does help. If you can get a base set of conquest gear, that helps more. However, the grind to get it is not fun. I agree with you on that.
For someone that can only play a few hours every other day, that grind becomes even worse. Although, numerically, the hours don’t really change between the person who grinds it out in a day or two vs the person who takes weeks to do it. The person who grinds it out in a day or two just remember it being awful for a day or two. The person who took weeks to do it, however, remembers it as weeks of playing without having fun. I think that is a core issue to a lot of this “it isn’t fun for casuals” thing.
My personal opinion is that there shouldn’t be gear locked behind rating. At least then, when you get the conquest gear, you are fully geared out. So perhaps it took a long time, but you will notice a big difference. Where now, you have to also grind PvP rating. I’d say around 1600 rating is where things start to even out in random BGs. The fact that you have to grind rating compounds the issue for casuals. That sucks, 100%.
Even though I agree with you that it sucks; I disagree about scaling our power. They did that with templates and I just didn’t enjoy it. I enjoy grinding for gear (to an extent). I enjoy the feeling of increasing the strength of my character in PvP. It’s fun for me! My biggest issue now, is that I also have to grind rating. That’s annoying and unfun for me. I play far too many alts and work far too long to do that. Unfortunately, that does take some of the fun out of the game for me.
The best solution I have found for when I want to gear up an alt which could likely be applied to casuals is the follow: play in the 51-59 bracket. Find a friend that has an alt in that bracket and play with them. It’s far more fun than the 60s bracket when you don’t have gear. Some people will say epic BGs, but IMO, they aren’t fun. If they are fun for you, then that’s a great way to do it as well. Often times you can be useful without having to have gear.
Hope this helps! Ignore people who poo poo you for saying it isn’t fun. Their reality is just different than yours and they fail at putting themselves in the shoes of others.
I do well and I usually top heals across both teams.
I understand if that is not something you are familiar with. Maybe you’ll get there someday if you stop blaming everything other than yourself for your losses. Good luck.
They should add a new que where everyone is scaled to the same stats, and disable all special upgrades on gear like gems, enchants, bonuses. If people are that protective of gear mattering in random BGs…then add a separate que for people that don’t want gear to matter. Personally, I actually qued to random BGs back when they had templates, but I don’t anymore. Not having a PVP mode where I can have fun in it is just one less reason to play this game.
We’ll see how many people would be willing to que into random BGs if they’re not geared. That alone would go to show how many people don’t find it fun to que without gear.
What’s the definition for casual exactly? I’m not dismissing the obvious issues with the gear system we have atm, but pretty much any class in the game can hit 1400 with a negative win/loss ratio in less than 50 games. 1400 gear is only about half a tier behind 2100 gear, which is typically the difference between honor and conquest in the past.
The gear system is bad almost all around. But if you’ve not at least tried 2s to get some rating, I think you would be surprised at how easy it can be attained.
Well to a certain extent much to the chagrin of “git gud” crowd a lot of the folks that are “struggling” simply don’t enjoy the content and it’s not always the general desired projection of “not be able to do it”, “lazy”, etc.
I agree with you totally that pretty much anyone could even get 1800 but for some it’s just not fun.
No one should be given free anything and should have to work for whatever however there should be at least some sort of constraints on how bad a casual battleground experience could end up being based on the ilevel variance. (Outside of those alphas that can carry the BGS as top heals/dps at 180 ilevel ::))
Same, was also going to add the same people that posted this in WAR were the same people that were crying about lack of devolvement after most of the player base moved back to WoW.
But yeah clear troll asking for proof of numbers when you can’t fill EBGs on some weeks late at night anymore.
only thing i enjoy is my boomy and hunter since they are so slippery even when i’m on a bad team i can get some kills. Everyone’s in 1600+ gear at this point
I mean i got the base pvp gear, and have 30k. There are a lot of peope in unranked running around with 60k. They absolutely destroy me. So yea, that is pretty unenjoyable.
And to rank up this pvp gear, i need to sit through a LOT of unranked bgs, where i get smoked and do no damage, or a LOT of ranked pvp, where i get smoked, do no damage, and don’t improve my rating. So there’s no real reason to pvp when i cant get rewards AND it feels terrible to just be a punching bag for other players .
Its not possible to catch up on PvP gear since they put it behind rating. Half the time you fight against fully geared opponents.
They seem to be adamant about it. It will probably stay in game in 10.0 aswell. So unless you start fresh when new expansion starts you will NEVER catch up fairly. “Great” system. This kind of crap is the reason why people leave WoW.
Gear disparity is absolutely unnecessary for a PvP system that is solely based on a rating that increases/decreases with wins/losses. I think they have a system that currently has a lot of potential if you divide how it works in PvP and PvE.
You can keep the gear treadmill aspect to keep players engaged by giving two tiers.
Honor gear scales up to n in pvp. Conquest gear scales up to n + 10 in pvp, with n + 10 being the current mythic tier.
Let people continue to upgrade their gear based on rating, but this system is solely for upgrading your gear in PvE. That way there is a slog for people trying to game PvE with PvP gear. PvPers are still incentivized to upgrade their gear even if they’re casual as there are still a lot of PvE elements that are required to progress your character in PvP.
But a system that punishes people on two fronts (Skill and Gear disparity) is not how you keep playeers engaged or get new players on board.
lfr and base honor gear is 213, the gap is 46 points in this ‘tier’
its more 12-13 points per ‘difficulty’ so a more accurate depiction would be heroic geared players vs mythic geared players
not sure if you’ve ever seen raid logs but mythic geared players utterly destroy the output of heroic geared players
in pvp the gap is exacerbated (because the only real goal is a burst kill) by differences in health pools and the burst meta, making the gap even larger than in pve
the difference between honor/conquest after scaling in mop/wod was about 3-6ilvls on the current system and the meta was more casual friendly and the power differences weren’t compounded by borrowed power systems that also must be advanced in conjunction with gear, with a lot of borrowed power gaps not even attainable by peeps who hit 1400
so with borrowed power gaps and the actual gap between 1400 vs 2100 gear the difference is more like 2 difficulty tiers, aka a normal raider vs a mythic raider
you can retort with ‘grind korthia til you loathe the game’ all you want but that is a burnout gearing system and just adds 100-200 hours to the gear grind by adding a super long unending monotonous daily rep grind, a ton of players just quit rather than throw away their precious free time on such a chore
Definitely agree. Random BGs should just be for casual fun, this means that all gear should be scaled to a certain ilvl so everyone gets to participate, learn the ropes, and then jump into ranked play when they earn a basic gear set through random BGs.
The only reason why you’d be against this change is if you enjoy overgearing other people to the point that you completely remove their ability to have fun by providing actual competition. You don’t want a competition, you just want to bully other people.
I don’t need it to go that far; I want it to be accessible but someone who pushes content in PVP should get at least some sort of a “win reward” that doesn’t arbitrarily decide outcomes as it happens now. (Despite the “rumors” of 180 ilevel forum heroes carrying and doing top damage / healing in casuals on a regular basis.)
Creating the whole “everyone has the same stuff” thing would be boring for a lot of folks and I agree with that.
Also, there should be some reward for effort and time spent working towards things as well.
Hard disagree. PVPing is the fun part, “working towards” something is always tedious and annoying. There are other ways to reward players than power. If they get bored they can roll another class and learn it, or just take a break and play another game. It’s okay to not be “working towards” something all of the time.
