I generally don’t agree with Zerde. But to be fair, he has never stooped to insults, etc. with me.
Claps while crying hysterically
This guy gets it, man!
1 Like
No one said MoP wasn’t great. I loved it. I’ve been going through Jade Forest on this character. I dont even care that I’m max level. I need some Alliance-Horde conflict that’s actually fun.
We’re saying that, when it came specifically to the Horde, we received a lot of writing that made our faction less appealing to the people who joined it. I will also say that a lot of the Horde’s writing is objectively bad.
But setting that aside, whether you think the Horde committing genocide was good writing or not (it wasn’t), I think you can understand why the people playing as that faction might not have liked the fact that Blizzard forced that on us. You can say the same thing about Theramore.
If it’s “good” writing for a story, then you at least have to admit its unlikable writing for a lot of people who used to like the Horde. And, in a game centered around a factional conflict, you kinda need both factions to be likable in their own ways.
So, if it’s not bad writing, it’s bad game design.
Lol maybe you should be.
You mean like EXACTLY what happened with Sylvanas?
Gee, it’s almost like Blizzard’s staff gets weirdly possessive and gross when it comes to writing females.
And people wonder why the lore got so bad, while the leaders at Blizz were drinking themselves into a stupor and Afrasiabi was forcing his ideas on whoever was still sober.
Exactly this. I remember as a small child thinking Jaina was too naive. And I was a Horde main. As with most things in WoW, I love the idea of her character in the first few expansions, but the execution was always a bit childish.
Obviously there will be people who hate Jaina for stupid reasons, but you can say that for any character in any popular setting. But, there are at least two perfectly valid reasons to dislike her character:
- She sometimes comes off as an insulting portrayal of women
- She’s a symbol for the Horde’s devolution
1 Like
Maybe yes. But when the entire topic is a circle fest then it gets one sided. I don’t ignore people so I wish you as fun as you can get.
So by your logic, the Horde is simply supposed to ignore the fact that Theramore is being used as a beachead for the Alliance incursion into the Barrens?
And when a juicy opportunity to get a bonus goal in decapitating the Alliance leadership offers itself, they’re supposed to ignore it?
4 Likes
she helped with Grom, didn’t save the horde against Daelin nor undercity. She would of died if she stood with Daelin. Also Thrall and Sylvanas would of wiped the floor with Varian & Jaina.
Also what do you expect when her city is being used as a staging point.
1 Like
That seems to have had an added dimension of personal malice of one creator to another.
2 Likes
I do. I think making Garrosh into the expansion-wide Big Bad was one of the worst decisions in WoW’s history and the start of the slide into the sorry state the Horde is in today. The fact that its execution was genius by comparison with BfA doesn’t make the premise better.
5 Likes
No I don’t. However I would like to think how stupid the rest of the Horde who opposed Garrosh’s expansionism to have not mentioned to Garrosh it was Jaina who saved his dad.
Not to mention that the utter hypocrisy to blame her when it was the Horde trying to expand on night elven territory that finally convinced the one person who wanted to avoid war to actually go to war.
Something else that kept gnawing at my mind about this narrative that Jaina was the original aggressor against the Horde is Varian’s short story. And I finally remembered what it was after all these years
She herself had come today to once again try to dissuade the king from his unbending stance against the Horde, but the drunken delegates surrounding the hotheaded baron could easily derail her agenda. Forcing a smile, she approached Baron Lescovar and his rabble.
This short happens AFTER Wolfheart. Which means that Jaina’s invasion of the Barrens might have happened after the Horde invaded Ashenvale. She certainly isnt acting like she just invaded the Barrens.
The Horde needed resources…the Ashenvale forest was the closets source available and the Horde had been on an on again off again push for it since the first landing on Kalimdor. Whether Jaina saved one orc is irrelevant to the needs of the whole.
When you are in fu ll collaboration with the war effort, that claim rings rather hollow.
4 Likes
And that is called being a thief. Not to mention if the Horde had not had a hand in the Wrathgate the night elves would have continued to trade with them. No nation is oblige to continue trading with another nation if they precieve to be a danger.
And it is just hypocritical to blame Jaina protecting her allies from your aggression. Jaina was helping her friends/allies from an aggresor. She was not in the wrong here.
She isn’t protecting her allies. Theramore’s soldiers aren’t in foreign lands. Theramore’s soldiers are in kalimdor.
1 Like
Literally the entire Barrens operation was to open another front to lessen the preasure against the night elves/ultimately be able to resupply them.
Again, the entire war could be blamed on the Horde and Garrosh in particular.
What do you think would have happened if they had mentioned it?
1 Like
Maybe Garrosh might have changed his mind? Garrosh in other realities was supposedly an actual hero. If there is anything that might have changed his mind, it would be appealing to his daddy issues.
I would also point out the story kept mentioning how Thrall probably shouldnt have inflated Garrosh’s pride in his dad so much and told him a less glorified version of his story. Said less Glorified story likely involving Jaina and what she did for his dad.
Worse case, it makes him even more of a horrible person for trying to kill one of the person responsible for his dad actually getting redeemed.
By what law? There is no overlaw that governs relations between the factions, no ICC of Azeroth, governing body of any sort.
From another point of view that’s equally valid she was enabling an invasion on Horde lands and interfering with a dispute between the Horde and the Night Elves over vitally needed resources that the elves refused to trade for.
If you refuse to sell food to a starving man that had the ability to fight… what do you think that man’s going to do? And do you think that man is going to care about anyone’s approval?
2 Likes
On what basis? The Horde was in a dispute with the Night Elves over vitally needed resources.
It was Jaina who put Theramore into that dispute when she provided the Alliance a beachhead to mount a massive invasion of the Barrens.
She is no longer a neutral party and can not claim not to have involved her city-state in the dispute.
And you’re claiming that the WarChief is simply supposed to put a dubious obligation over the needs of the Horde?
1 Like
The Horde dealt with the traitors who plottet the Wrathgate. Those responsible are all dead now. So Alliance cutting the trade anyways by edict of Varian was the biggest douche move you can make.
On the basis they were taking stuff that didnt belong to them. No one is entitled to the resources of other. If a nation doesnt want to trade with you tough luck.
It was Garrosh who forced her hand. If he didnt invade the night elves she wouldnt have attack the barrens. Also, based from what I just showed you it look like Jaina was still trying for peace even after everything that was going on.
Both Farnell and Sylvanas knew full well those experiments were still on going. Not to mention they still keep the plague and used it in Gilneas. Proving it was all a farce.
On that note, I do wonder if the Forsaken still have the plague or did the Horde finally ditch it all.