oh please stop! it is not like the night elfs are innocent. During the last war, they mobilized their army against the horde. Who were mining a recourse away from alliance boarder. Horde was attacked while mining, even before that their warchief was attacked by Genn and his worgens(who have close ties to night elfs)
During Cata too, they forced the horde make a move. They stopped critical trade of food when the horde was starving and also deprived them of lumber which was stated was needed for life saving shelter.
So you see in both wars, night elfs were actively deploying policies that lead to war. They were just chilling at home being good neighbors, that got attacked out of the blue.
The question isn’t about innocence. The question is of their survival against the Horde never ending plots to kill them and take their land. Going to the Dragon Isles gives a land to the Night Elves that is impossible to take or threaten.
That gives them freedom and option when it comes to northern kalimdor.
Yes just like how Poland forced Germany to move or how Ukraine forced Russia to move.
I guess the polish or Ukrainians deserve what happens to them because they didn’t submit to the fascist powers fast enough right?
Poor Russia is just defending itself from Ukranian aggression /s
Except every piece of lore disagrees with you.
We know the real intentions behind Garrosh’s orc supremacist goals or Sylvanas’ death god infatuations in BFA.
Ladies and gentlemen as we are now switching strategies to “So what if the genocide happened! they deserved it!” arguments
Except the plots have ended. They’re none happening right now. There aren’t going to be any for the rest of the expansion. Probably none next expansion either. The possibility that Blizzard is outright done doing the aggressive Horde trope is something that has completely escaped you. Or you’re blissfully ignoring it.
How are you going to contend with the Primalists then. They came within a hair’s bredth of stealing that Seed very recently. They were only foiled because we had to sacrafice a Malfurion to bring back a Death Powered Ysera, but that’s still just a temporary solution.
The night elves aren’t safe in Dragon Isles either. Maybe they should try planting their seed in Outland?
That won’t happen. Just like the Horde efforts to weaken Alliance so they won’t be a threat anymore never worked out, any similar effort perpetrated by the Alliance would similarly be doomed to fail.
As of exploring in Kalimdor the Horde is still very much in Night Elf territories.
And I already discussed this with you.
The primalists are indeed an issue but I would say by the end of the expansion they would be much more secure.
Outland is a dying land with its own problems, not a good contender for relocation of the teldrassil survivors.
Then I guess Dragon Isles is the only viable solution eh?
Blizzard doesn’t need to write a story where the Horde gets humiliated again for no purpose.
Why are you so fixated on the Night Elves putting all their eggs back in one singular basket that would be a soft target for the Horde?
As much as Smallioz’s posts can come off as obsessive trolling, there is method to their madness, or at least a few good points: Blizzard has consistently written the Horde as bloodthirsty morons so much that there being any peace between the two factions is blatant nonsense- the only sane reaction would be the Horde’s flat-out destruction at the hands of the Alliance purely for the sake of self-survival. BFA in particular was so incredibly badly written that all attempts to actually make the conflict look ‘Morally Grey’ as advertised instantly flop down on their face DEAD. To compound problems, even it’s Morally Black-and-White nature was driven by foaming idiocy- the evil characters’ actions were always stupidly self-destructively evil and the good characters’ actions were always stupidly self-destructively good. Thus the current peace is rendered as completely unbelievable as the past war, merely that ‘Stupid Good’ won. Until the demonic termites eating away at the developers brains twitch the wrong way and decide it’s time for the Horde to randomly commit genocide again.
Which isn’t a solution really.
Maybe in a strategy or single player game but not in an MMO.
The only believable solution is that that even IF the Horde goes murder crazy again they CANT do it even if they wanted to.
They offered Horde players the council which is suppose to supposed to stop Horde’s tendencies of being idiots and giving power to their more “honorable” members of stemming the warmonger’s tendencies. This should please Horde fans who have no certainty that the next murder happy fascit wont decide to kill another group of people with no one able to stop them.
And they offered the night elves a safe haven, its going to be a place that is impossible to reach by the Horde even if they wanted to. Even if they went murder crazy. They won’t be able to reach them.
In addition to that if the Night Elves get this haven with emerald portals that can take them to anywhere in the world it would solidify their position tremendously.
No promises needed that the Horde won’t do it again.
I think what is happening now is that the termite infestation is being reduced.
My original idea was that Night Elves erect walls, magical or physical to stop Horde aggression before it gets too far but this Dragon Isles solution is more elegant.
You’re exploring Cataclysm era Kalimdor. There hasn’t been an update to current events in 13 years.
Try again.
You were wrong then. You’re still wrong now.
So certain are we? We don’t have any idea what Blizzard has planned for the Primalists or how things are going to turn out with the dragon aspects. By end of expansion it’s entirely possible that they all might be dead.
Then where would your vaunted dragon protection be?
Because the idea of the nelves up and running away from ten thousand years of calling Kalimdor their home because the Horde proved they’re not so invulnerable strikes me as rather pitiful?
Nobody knows how savage and brutal orcs can get more than the draenei, but you don’t see Velen and the Exodar peoples abandoning Azure Isles to get away from them, do you? Why should the night elves?
In which case I’ll be pretty quickly clicking that unsub button and leaving WoW. Likely for good. I didn’t start playing WoW just for it to constantly be Lord of the Rings Land.
You also want us to believe that the Horde is the victim of bad writing on behalf of blizzard. That Horde players are treated unfairly when Blizzard writes them as bloodthirsty murderers that can’t have a single on-screen victory without being written into doing something horrible to surrender the moral highground to the Alliance.
And yet, every single time we talk about those moments, you white wash it away and act like it never happened.
Which one is it, Treng? Is the Horde a victim of bad and bias writing? Or are they written completely fine and never does anything wrong?
Because if you are going to be constantly walking back your OWN criticisms of the Horde, then having a real, honest and productive conversation with you is impossible.
Its the latest book by Blizzard that both you and Treng are more than happy to reference to showcase how the Night Elves are still fighting for their lands.
Yet you offer no evidence for it.
Just questions which I have already answered numerous times.
Guess we will see but I would be very surprised if the Primalists actually win.
I don’t know how many times I need to repeat this. They aren’t running away, they are just… hedging their bets.
Velen has a spaceship. He can just fly away and most of his people died in Legion.
The Draenei are not very numerous people to begin with.
Everyone is badly written, just some are badly written in different ways as the opinions/actions of the factions became less important than the NPCs leading them. WoW has never had GREAT writing, but the control knobs have really fallen off the machine these past few expansions.
Is this why you are fighting me so hard on what Blizzard has stated as established lore?
If the Lore isn’t as bad as it actually is, then it makes playing the Horde more palatable for you?
Look I don’t like being the Horde’s constant victims either but I am not going to headcanon or imagine nothing happened, everything is fine and everything is going to be great with no world building to support it. All I am doing here is making sure the problems Blizzard caused are clear and the solution that is needed for the better health of the story actually manifests… and so far… amazingly it looks like it is shaping up to be.
The Horde got their council to stop the next evil warchief. Would it work? Maybe.
But the Night Elve’s survival can’t be dependent on Horde’s whims or internal politics, they need a trumph card to pull IF there is an invasion.
Because last time the Horde barreled through every defense and killed every soldier and civilian on their path. (I need to put a disclaimer before Treng loses his mind, for Lor’Danel there were some civilians being spared and evacuated. If all of them made it to or out of Teldrassil is unknown.)
If the Horde is entitled to something that supposedly that fixes their issue the night elves also deserve something that addresses their issues.
Saving souls wasn’t it.
The saved souls becoming this ultimate shield for future night elves? Now we are heading towards a good solution.
Which book is this? The last one I read was Shadows Rising and I don’t recall any night elves fighting Horde for their lands in that book. What are you referring to?
The evidence you presented is that “Horde Tried to Be Good But Alliance Still Got Burned Because they Went Bad Again”
But here we are with Horde’s trying harder to be good. They even completely revamped their entire system of government to avoid further Evil Warchief tropes.
I concur that Blizzard might villain bat the Horde again but you refuse to acknowledge that they might actually, you know, not.
But they are running away.
Either the Horde will do nothing at all which makes putting the tree in Dragon Isles completely pointless.
Or the Horde will invade. And if the night elves are committed to defending it, then putting the tree far away essentially spreads their forces too thin, making it harder to support the defenders. And you seem to be operating under a notion that defense against the Horde is impossible so, essentially, yes, relocating to Dragon Isles is an advanced move to account for a perceived unavoidable loss.
They’re operating on even worse circumstances than the Night Elves are though, but here we have the nelves relocating away from Kalimdor while the draenei, despite having a spaceship, are staying put.
That just strikes me as weird.
That’s an awfully big rant in response to my statement that if Blizzard villain bats the Horde again, I’d be unsubbing. It’s not a difficult notion.
Exploring for Kalimdor is an art book that gave us a lore update on what was going on in Kalimdor after the fourth war.
Actually the evidence I presented was that WoT was devastating and an event that has caused the NEs to be an endangered race similar to Draenei or… blood elves? Idk if their populations have recovered from WC3 yet or not. we have very little details to go on concerning them.
I understand and I am not disputing that.
But my issue is why should the Night Elves or Alliance leave it to chance?
Whether the Horde goes bad or not is up to them, the Alliance would do their bit so IF it happens then the Horde would not be able to do wreak the damage they did in WoT.
With the Emerald portals being so close and have FIVE dragon flights already guarding their home the Night Elves already have a good enough defense to concentrate their forces in Kalimdor.
If the Horde does invade again in WoT 2.0 attack they will barrel through Ashenvale and Darkshore or whatever zone is their intended target. But they can never reach the new teldrassil. The Night Elves will evacuate the civilians and then shut down the portals.
Then they can guerilla fight until the rest of the Alliance arrives and defeat the invasion force. If we know anything is that if the Horde and Alliance fight in a fair fight the Horde will lose.
Its the Burning Crusade invincibility barrier
And even if the Horde tried I doubt the High Elves would ever allow the Draenei to ever truly be threatened. They owe them big time for the Sunwell.
I think that statement kind of revealed why you were so adamant that BFA was not as bad as it could possibly be. I have provided tons of evidence to the contrary though.
I think I am being very clear and I don’t think you are playing a character like Treng or Erevien is.
So I want to make sure that I am well understood rather than a silly caricature.
Being bad doesn’t mean you should lose. Stormheim alone was enough justification to start a war and if Blizzard wasn’t so bent on excusing all actions from the alliance, then the Horde should have had the upper hand in thinking with with the alliance is impossible not to mention that the Cataclysm resources problem still hasn’t been solved so far.
Not really. You won because of deus ex machina BS. Alleria and Jaina to name them here. Without your magical mcguffins you have nothing.
There is nothing wrong being the villain. See Swtor.
And we lost alot of good lore characters as paid price. Meanwhile like in any expansion not a single alliance character was killed yet. Some blood elves even sacrificed themselves and put their already endangered race at risk.
Exploring Azeroth Kalimdor. It pretty mucch confirms alliance has numerous occupation forces from Stormwind in all our core zones except for Mulgore.
To be fair, the subjective opinion of a single ruler half way across the other side of the world, isn’t indictive of the Kaldoreis fate or numbers. Especially considering they had the numbers to not only sacrifice them at the raid on Daz’alore but had enough people to retake Darkshore and push the horde out of most of their lands.
Smallioz is a liar taking flawed character perspective as canon fact after danuser said character’s perspectives are often wrong and you can only believe things that the player character is there to witness.
Like all the very many lands that night elves own and populate.
Again, smallioz is such a massive liar that he said only druids care about Ashenvale.
