The only time war raft has ever given anything near population numbers is Silvermoon, where 90% of the race died.
Blood/high elves own far less lands than night elves do.
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Yes that is correct. Blizzard rarely ever gives specifics so whatever hint or clue they give we have to take at face value.
You are certain that Andiun is wrong.
Please provide me with the lore and references that you have that makes it clear that the majority of NEs did not die and Andiun was wrong in his statement that are now far too few.
Canada owns more land than California. That doesn’t mean there are more Canadians in terms of population. You say that I am lying or I am trying to mislead.
So far I am the only person here who is actually quoting lore and providing references.
Please provide yours.
Your source is a fallible human male’s incorrect perspective about another race that he does not govern as he waxes poetically “any death is one too many.”
Valsharrah
Ashenvale
Winter spring
Felwood
Azsuna
Feralas
Stonetalon
Desolace (???)
Azshara (as of exploring kalimdor)
Moonglade
Hyjal
That spot in the wetlands I don’t remember the name of.
Darkshore
There are more but I’m not at home.
Not interested in debating made up percentages when blizzard has only given them once, with the high elf genocide of Silvermoon.
But night elves are all over the known world and also populating the emerald dream.
You’re a compulsive liar desperately clutching your night elf victim card to claim it was anywhere near an extinction event.
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What race or gender he identifies with has very little to do with his opinion.
He is the High King of the Alliance, if anyone can shed light on the current circumstances of his own dominion then it is him.
Druid school
Conquered at the time of WoT. Astranaar the biggest location already depopulated.
A single manor. There are more goblins there than NE.
Druid expdition to cleans the forest.
Undead NEs don’t count.
Military outpost.
Druid School.
Night Elf Expedition + Druid expedition.
We are talking about at the time of WoT. Not exploring kalimdor.
Druid enclave but indeed a large poplation location
Druid holding. The rest is in ruins as they try to heal the land.
Druid expedition to heal the land as far as i remember. There is a tower and an hunters lodge.
Conquered by the Horde.
Even if you don’t debate % you are still trying to pass of soldier camps as major population hubs.
It was, but regardless of what you believe, the game is treating it as near extinction even.
They made a parallel between the Horde and the scourge.
They have been milking the tragedy for several expansions and will continue to do so for more expansions.
There will always be some sort of “remember” teldrassil questline somewhere. You know it and I know it.
And Blizzard is solving the extinction issue by giving the NEs their new magic tree on another continent far, far away from the Horde.
I admit this whole affair is going a different way than I wanted but Blizzard is definitely ticking some boxes.
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Val’sharah was certainly more than just a druid school. There were several villages and settlements across the zone populated by night elves.
Hyjal is the night elves’ most sacred location, so it stands to reason several were living on the mountain. It also became the nelves temporary base of operations after Teldrassil was destroyed. Whether it stays that way or if they move to their new treehouse remains to be seen. Even if the new tree is planted somewhere else besides Kalimdor, they’re not about to abandon it just to run away from “Teh Bigg Ee-Vile Horde”
Darkshore was retaken by the Night Elves. There were quite a few fighting there as well in the Warfront. Ashenvale was likely also retaken with all of their holdings, maybe even the ones the Horde took in Cata.
Certainly not extinction nor even all that close to extinction. I doubt they’re even considered “endangered”.
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Men almost never have any power outside of druidism, which is a subsect of night elf culture.
Humans have even less power over night elves.
Filled with Night Elves all over the zone, outside of the druid school.
There is also a temple of Elune which is presided over by priests, not druids.
You know this though, you’re just compulsively lying.
It’s currently directly controlled by night elves with the exception of STP and the lumbermill.
one single race, the night elves, is repelling almost the entirety of the horde when the most powerful horde city in the multiverse is right next door.
That they can do that is proof that they have repopulated the zone.
Compulsively lying. Who would’ve thought.
https://wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/Starfall_Village
Night Elven druid expedition to clean the forest which they own.
And before you compulsively lie some more, I need to remind other readers (not you, you know this you’re just pretending that you don’t), Felwood was considered NORTHERN ASHENVALE before it was corrupted.
You know.
The Night Elf Holy Land.
And Smallioz (says that he) thinks it’s unimportant to nelves.
MY BROTHER IN CHRIST.
THE WARDENS LIVE THERE.
COMPULSIVELY LYING
https://wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/Stardust_Spire
https://wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/Thal%27darah_Overlook
https://wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/Farwatcher%27s_Glen
No we absolutely are not.
You don’t get to move the goalpost.
THE ENTIRETY OF TYRANDE’S COMMAND CENTER IS THERE.
Jesus christ, you can’t help yourself.
tl;dr: Smallioz compulsively lies and tries to move the goalpost by stating "it doesn’t count if it’s after or before the War of Thorns, and only the War of Thorns (an irl two week event) counts.
Then he implies that if night elves are druids they do not count as night elves despite the night elves being the only player race directly blessed by Ysera to use the emerald dream as they see fit.
tl;dr tl;dr:
Smallioz does nothing but lie, to the surprise of absolutely no one.
tl;dr tl;dr tl;dr:
HE IMPLIES THAT THE WARDENS DON’T COUNT AS NIGHT ELVES IN AZSUNA.
tl;dr tl;dr tl;dr tl;dr:
HE IMPLIES THAT ASHENVALE, THE NIGHT ELF HOLY LAND, IS NOT IMPORTANT TO NIGHT ELVES EXCEPT FOR DRUIDS.
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Do they equal in amount of population and size of Darnasus? Let alone all of teldrassil, darkshore and ashenvale combined?
The vatican is the most sacred catholic location.
Are there more catholics in vatican than anywhere else in the world? I doubt it unless you start pulling ratios.
The populations of locations were evacutated to Teldrassil and that place was burned down if you recall.
And the High King of the Alliance stating that it was a genocide and there are now far too few NEs in the world?
Did Blizzard write to play a prank?
Do Wardens make up a big chunk if Night Elf population?
How many millions nay billions nay trillions of NEs are Wardens?
Yeah the Wardens would definitely repopulate the earth.
Andiun
The High King of the Alliance.
After WoT was over looked upon the refugees and said.
There are now far too few Night Elves left in the world in the wake of this genocide.
Those are Blizzard’s words. Written through Andiun for the read.
Every location you have named is a school, a camp or a one building cabin called a village.
None of these equals to darkshore, ashenvale and Teldrassil in terms of population.
Night Elves retaking their lands means nothing since as you have the habit of remind us the Horde was barely winning against citizen militia.
They didnt fight the army right? Thats your big complaint about the Horde being so pathetic that even their combined force can barely beat civilians.
BFA has broken your brain my guy.
I have never seen anyone so badly in denial about fiction.
I don’t know. Maybe? Blizzard’s not exactly consistent with proposed population numbers of cities, towns, or other locations.
The vatican hardly equates to Hyjal. Vatican served as nobody’s home except the pope and some priests. Quite a few nelves call that mountain their home, both before and after Teldrassil.
They still had the numbers necessary to win the warfront though. How can they do that if they were almost extinct? 
I think you’re latching far too tightly onto some word salad printed in some crappy novella that’s both ambiguous and inconsistent with what’s portrayed in the game, all to overinflate a victim complex.
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taking to Smallioz is pointless, he has no valid arguments and can’t stay on topic. Furthermore is lies and avoids contested points.
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Are we arguing whether or not Teldrassil was a Genocide or not?
Because it was.
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Basically the debate is if a significant amount if NEs are dead that they are considered “endangered”
Whether its critical or not is a matter of subjective opinion.
My argument is during WoT both Ashenvale and Darkshore were evacuated to Teldrassil and then Teldrassil was burned by the Horde.
Andiun backs this up with his statement about there now being far too few Night Elves left in the world with the survivors that escaped to Stormwind are almost all that remained.
- counter to this by Micah is that Stormwind was so flooded by refugees that thus statement can’t be true
I made an example that New York is ~9 million and Chicago is 2.6 million.
If chigago burned and only 600k were saved and instantly teleported to New York. Sure as hell New York would be flooded with refugees that can barely house or feed.
So this counter argument is very dumb.
- The second argument by Treng is that there are many Night Elf camps besides Teldrassil. So they are not endangered.
Of course any and all his examples are inconclusive because we don’t know the % much less the number of NEs that live outside of Ashenvale/Darkshore/Teldrassil.
- third argument from Treng is that Night Elves have access to emerald dream.
You try to figure out how thats relevant to the population issue because I cant.
- the fourth argument against is that Night Elves retook Darkshore and Ashenvale. So this must mean these places got repopulated.
I don’t know how fast Night Elves can have babies and how fast they reach fighting age but i dont think its less than 5 years.
The explanation most of the army was not destroyed and the Night Warrior power being the explanation of Night Elf successes.
- the fifth argument is that Andiun, the leader of the Alliance, is an unreliable narrator when it comes to giving us information.
Of course this rule does not apply to any other character or quest giver.
Anything they say is ironclad fact.
Its only when its inconvenient that we must mistrust NPCs throwing facts at us.
Oh and he is a human male. We hate those guys remember?
- the sixth argument is from Darkore.
He states that we see regiments of NEs parading around in BFA.
If there are enough to parade around then surely they aren’t endangered.
Well this ignores the army survival issue as well as other weird things in BFA like the void elves going from a dozen or so elves to being so numerous that they could field as much as troops as other races in thise infamous regiments we see in BFA.
- the seventh argument is if the army survived then that means there are plenty of NEs left.
They arent endagered.
There are two problems with this argument.
Firstly armies can’t be more or even equal the civilian population.
Rome at the height of their power had 1 soldier for every 100 citizen.
1% of your population being the maximum you can field as an army is generally the rule. Even if it was 10% or even 20% which are of course absolutely absurd numbers that still means its a tiny portion of the actual total population.
The second is of course that Night Elves continued to fight in BFA and in Exploring for Kalimdor from the Horde continued territorial aggressions in Ashenvale as well as retaking of Darkshore.
This finite population has been fighting and continues to fight. Nobody said NE’s werent stubborn, so whatever exist is being slowly wittled down.
- the eigth argument from Drajeel is that in Cataclysm the Horde was hungry.
So they needed shelter.
Does that make sense? No.
But is it a convenient excuse to justify that Orcs need living space for their Third Reich? Absolutely.
There now you are all caught up.
Certain players… mostly Horde as you can see are keen on minimizing and dismissing Teldrassil and its lasting effect on the NEs as some negligible skrimish that a quite a few NEs died but its not a big deal.
I think to a degree they are saying this, especially Treng, that they don’t want NE issues to be resolved because they are tired of NEs being the center of attention and their problems being the player’s problems.
So if we gaslight ourselves that there is no problem.
Then there is no solution needed.
And if no solution is needed then there is no new story needed.
No appology is needed.
Horde did nothing wrong. Or just a tiny oups. Its ok.
Night Elves are ok.
So can we go back to focusing on someone else please?
Thats the mentality.
That is the underlying intentions behind this mental gymnastic exercise.
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It’s just Horde players trying to have their cake and eat it too.
They can say the Horde conquered mass swaths of land in 2 weeks when previous campaigns failed after years of fighting. Unless Sylvanas/Saurfang are just that much more tactically genius than Garrosh.
They can rampage through the Night Elves most populated areas and Destroy their capital city “But there are other places with Night Elves so it’s okay”
And no one even brings up the loss of life is only part of the troubles, the other part has to do with the Blessings of the Dragonflights. Which, we see in vanilla just how much of a drastic impact that has on Kaldorei mortality. The equivalent of introducing a new disease to a unsuspecting population.
But “There are still Nelves so stop complaining - Let us brutalize you and use you as a doormat for a story that is about how bad we feel about it and thus you should just accept it and move on. - Because truly, the Horde is the true victim here.”
I often associate red background with crying infants but Treng in particular is that one kid who will rip toys out of the hands of other infant, then cry when he is told he has to share.
I answered most of your points in the post above.
I think the undeniable fact remains.
Teldrassil was incredibly devasting, and yes the evil Horde as you put it is at fault.
The losses are not negligble or recoverable in a short time period.
Because thats now how babies work… right?
Right now NEs are homeless.
Their population devasted.
And the “evil Horde” is still contesting Ashenvale. I guess they REALLY love killing purple people.
The Night Elves remaining on Kalimdor as their main home is a big mistake.
It just opens them up to another Burning. Blizzard is solving this problem by putting the Night Elves half a world away so the Horde and their bloodlust can be mitigated by distance instead of a perfect defense all the time.
This was my biggest worry and Blizzard is addressing it.
The next thing is the Horde actually taking accountability for their behavior.
How that would actually look like though remains to be seen.
What I find funny about Treng is that he is more mad about being told the NE civilian defenders are killing 8 horde for every 1 they lose.
This was mark of defeat for him
This is from the novella btw. This isn’t an unreliable narrator either
This is fact. This is what makes Teldrassil a defeat in his eyes
But does he consider this when Andiun comments about the state of affairs for the NEs?
Of course not.
That goes against his imagination so it must be a lie. 
Sorry I necroed this thread. I caused a huge mess.
Kalimdor is the home of the Night Elves and should remain as such. It is even in the name. KALimdor is the Land of Eternal Starlight. It belongs to the KAL’dorei, the Children of the Stars.
This should have been addressed at the end of BFA. The Horde should have relinquished all lands North of the Barrens. As well as Stonetalon, Desolace, and Feralas. Every high ranking Commanding Officer who participated in the War of Thorns should have been handed over to the Kaldorei to face due punishment. And every member of the new Horde Council should have been on their knees and begging for forgiveness from Tyrande.
What did we get instead?
Elune cucking Tyrande out of her RIGHTFUL vengeance. Elune looking like a damned fool for not even knowing Shadowlands was broken. And everything to be swept under the rug because the greatest crime perpetrated against the Kaldorei people in modern History was merely a plot device for non-Kaldorei characters. The Kaldorei, like always, treated as an afterthought.
Yeah and he ignores the fact that every campaign that was attempted before never got past Meastra’s Post, and those were YEAR long campaigns. Sylvanas did it in 2 weeks. To say that the operation was a meatgrinder for Horde casualties is a drop in a very large bucket when trying to rationalize how the hell War of Thorns was conducted logistically.
We are arguing that the scale of Teldrassil was not enough to consider the night elves being an extinct race by any means. Which it was not btw. They had enough numbers to sacrifice a ton of soldiers in Zandalar and again to kick the Horde out of Darkshore.
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Considering the untrained Nelves are worth 8 Horde soldiers, that doesn’t mean much.
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So you admit Blizzard made the Horde look pathetic when they couldn’t even defeat untrained milita forces instead of the main sentinel army?
Because Garrosh was an idiot and everyone knows it. It was Sylvanas who carried victory after victory back in Cataclysm at Hillsbrad, Silverpine, Andorhal and Stromgarde.
I addressed this a few posts up.
Garrosh was intended to be Tactically brilliant.