And than Blizz went ahead and retroactively made Daelin look like a absolute genius concerning the horde. And this what we horde players mean when we say that blizz refuses to stick the alliance with anything resembling moral ambiguity or heaven forbid, a actual crappy human being.
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Except they didnt. Jaina’s questline make it quite clear to the Alliance that Daelin was in the wrong. Hell, Anduin says “Arthas, Daelin…the ghosts of the past haunt us as well”.
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More from a players perception than the games. This is why we have alliance players who claim that Daelin was right to do what he did
Whether it was intentional or not, blizz ironically made the man look like a genius when they made the horde go overboard in the war crimes department during BfA
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I was responding Erevien saying there was no problem with being potrayed in the wrong.
That’s just it though. Even when the faction is being portrayed as being wrong, the players are mostly blocked away from that and allowed to be heroes. Only when we come across certain Alliance NPCs do we get the finger wagging treatment or the various threats, which are honestly nothing really.
Blizzard would prefer both Alliance and Horde players be treated as good guys and heroes instead of villains.
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Not in BfA.
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This was all during War of Thorns event then?
Yeah, sorry then. I refused to participate in that nonsense.
Daelin, was fighting for old grudges/racism, it is not the same thing. How is the horde evil in the scenario I mentioned where horde is fighting for its survival and alliance because they want the horde to starve.
I mean maybe we have different morals bro, if my neighbor was starving and i had an abundance of food, I wouldn’t let him starve. Only reason I wouldn’t give him food is if I wanted them dead. Same thing if my family was starving and my neighbor did that, you better believe I would fight to save my family.
Again maybe we have different morals, me denying someone food to me is the same as killing them.
The Alliance did not want the Horde to starve. Having said that they are not about to simply give resources to a faction that has repeatedly attacked them and direct/indirectly caused the Wrathgate.
And Garrosh was motivated not just with feeding his people. He wanted them to be CONQUEROR and take more then they need/he wanted to make a second orcish capital(preferably with his name on it) in the middle of Ashenvale.
Maybe don’t keep making weapons of mass destruction like the plague. And don’t put a leader who clearly was trying to aggressively take not just resources but land from someone else.
I’d also point out that while they were fears that the Horde would starve, they were not starving. Hell, with all the resources Garrosh put into his army he could have spent that feeding his people.
No, less than half the list is from the WoT.
You’ve got that backward. The Horde isn’t villain batted because they start wars—they start wars because they’re villain batted.
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This is a chicken and egg thing. The Horde started life starting wars.
We killed a doctor without borders.
She died saying she wanted to heal us.
Which shows how much blizzard as a whole hates the Horde and its playerbase.
WQ designers were not Afrasiabi.
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It certainty feels that way since Cata at least. They have so little respect for why people love the horde and what it was supposed to stand for during the days of WC 3. That message got lost somewhere along the way.
All so these devs can have their heavy metal evil horde again. Which none of us signed up for
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There was no “villain batting” for the Old Horde because they were created to be villains. But once the WC3 retcon came in and the Horde was reimagined, they became a different organization and it became possible to villain bat them.
I kinda think you know this and you’re just deliberately fudging for internet points.
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This feels like semantics. They were “villain batted” because they were villains, even in Warcraft 3 they acted as villains to Alliance races(ones that could be redeemed but still an aggressive and darkish force). And in Warcraft 3-BfA they were getting villain batted partial because of its original villainous roots.
This feels like semantics. They were “villain batted” because they were villains, even in Warcraft 3 they acted as villains to Alliance races(ones that could be redeemed but still an aggressive and darkish force).
? The Warsong Clan to the Night Elves and the Alliance Expedition, sure, but the rest of the Horde in WC3? The orcs, tauren and trolls that is? All of them generally fought in self-defense against whatever they were fighting.
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The orcs last act in EK was steal Alliance ships. The trolls were also helping Garrosh/Thrall against the Alliance/night elves. The taurens were probably the most innocent of them. But even they were half a step away from attacking Jaina/the Alliance before Medivh interfered.
I get what you’re saying.
Perhaps this is just my view on the subject, but things like this was why I double-appreciated all the Old God Fighting PvE content that came with Zandalar because it did at least make the horrible design of the war more bearable. It doesn’t excuse the badness of the war campaign but at least when you got done slogging through the cringe you had at least something to look forward to.
8.1 was a different story altogether though, sadly.
Against some of Jaina’s forces early in the Kalimdor campaign and also with the night elves? Maybe. The rest? Not so much. I’ll never fault the Horde for seeking freedom from the humans during the WC3 tutorial missions. I especially won’t fault them for defending themselves against Daelin Proudmoore’s vengence crusade.
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I’m a hundred posts late for this, but I feel like people don’t understand how large military maneuvers work. The horn Sylvanas blew was the Alliance’s warning they were retreating, which the Alliance knew given the immediate reaction was shock.
The more important problem was that it took until Before the Storm for anyone to get an official statement on what had happened and it was literally just the easiest question to ask. Horde leadership had been in Dalaran the entire Legion campaign and absolutely none of the Alliance decided to just ask why the retreat had happened.
EDIT:
This is a bit of a weird thing to try and turn malicious. they didn’t have a navy or the time to build one so stealing the ships was kind of the only option.
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The orcs last act in EK was steal Alliance ships. The trolls were also helping Garrosh/Thrall against the Alliance/night elves. The taurens were probably the most innocent of them.
They may have stolen ships but it was all to escape conflict and get away from humanity at the end of the day, not something to find fault in; the trolls were fighting in self-defense against the humans initially after they invaded their island and hounded them upon it, and if you want to get into super technicalities, the night elves still struck the first aggressive blow against the Warsong Clan (it could be debated that Grom being Grom would attack them anyway if he found them but he didn’t at the end of the day).
As for attacking the Alliance/jaina in Stonetalon? Jaina was about to throw hands as well, in fact she might have been the first.
Thrall and Cairne enter the Oracle’s domicile, where Jaina and her humans are already present.
Jaina Proudmoore: Orcs. I knew that we were being followed. Defend yourselves!
The humans and orcs prepare to attack each other but are interrupted by the sudden appearance of the Prophet.
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