Maybe someone will listen to our requests. Can we please do away with borrowed powers from expansion to expansion. You shouldn’t lose things every expansion, just expand upon and grow.
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You will always have borrowed power. Blizzard wants grinds to give you something to do and keep you subscribed
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game would be so boring with no borrowed power
I think borrowed powers need a redesign, not a removal.
Like, what if you had choice of borrowed powers from each expansion you’ve earned them in? Not all at once–but more of a permanent feel to the one(s) you prefer.
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Honestly, I’ve always thought that borrowed power systems done right can be great, this would require Blizz to make sure classes and specs are fully functional on their own, without anything bolted on. Then use these systems to enhance or maybe add an extra thing or two, which we would of course lose, but at least your class and spec would still feel fully functional on its own.
Blizz seems to do it the wrong way though, they build classes and specs with these systems in mind, then when we lose them, we feel like something is missing.
I also believe they couldn’t just keep adding something new every expansion or we end up with ability bloat and a big prune like WoD.
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Born in 1978
Ion, Ion Hazzikostas!
Ion says that they’re aware that this isn’t ideal, and it’s something they want to address. To use the example he used, if you’re playing a Mage who went to the Shadowlands and did cool things there, you should come back a better Mage, not simply one who did a lot of things and then left everything they learned over there. Experiences in RPGs are supposed to make you stronger, give you a sense of character progression, and the sideways systems like Artifacts and Azerite Armor leave you feeling almost like you didn’t get anything for all your time spent saving the world.
He also pointed out this isn’t a mid-expansion problem, and so, there’s not likely going to be any major changes during Shadowlands to address it — it’s something the dev team is keeping in mind to work on for the next expansion, because they agree that it’s weird to constantly hop on a new treadmill for each new expansion and then hop off when the next one is on its way, all your expansion’s worth of progression wiped out in the process. They can’t keep adding on new abilities the way they did before Warlords of Draenor, but it’s also the case that “borrowed power” has ended up being unsatisfying as a replacement, since it basically just adds powers and then yoinks them away.
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Borrowed powers in my opinion serve two purposes.
First they allow for Blizzard to create easy content for players. Having to upgrade the power or find the best power for you then upgrade that. It a formula that does not change much xpac to xpac. Basically it is busy work for players.
Second it allows for Blizzard to give classes new abilities without adding button bloat. I normally see people asking for new classes or new abilities when time for a new xpac to come. This allows Blizzard to play with giving new abilities but not have to carry those from xpac to xpac.
So for Blizzard to remove borrowed powers they need to have something in place to fill the gap. Maybe Blizzard could reword the talent system where borrowed powers become skills you can talent into once unlocked? This way players have a choice in what they want to have. I don’t know, I am super causal at this point.
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We’ve always had borrowed power that gets removed after the x-pac. Tier is the best example.
Having the same abilities and playstyle for 20 years can get boring, but gaining new abilities every expansion and keeping them forever will create ability bloating likes of which this game have been seen before. That is where borrowed power comes in, it is an extension to the expansion. Slap it on and players will feel sense of progression in that new expansion, making things feel fresh but once the expansion ends players will go from being a demigod to being a lowly peasant.
Solution? Give us new talents every expansion( don’t revamp it, again), tweak the GCD for few things here and there, give just 1 or 2 abilities every expansion or just mix how abilities interact with each other. That should make every expansion feel fresh and exciting, and yes, that will require lots of balancing but it is better giving players something only to take it away.
I have been thinking this since Legion.
It feels bad having your character power reset at the beginning of the next xpac… to what it was at the beginning of the current xpac.
It ceases being an overarching journey and becomes episodic… which is okay for many… but feels lame to me. “The one where they got Azerite” & “The one where they joined a Covenant”
Have nothing to show for it… and now with how dead it is, I can’t even say “the friends I made along the way” as they’re all elsewhere.
(Some may argue Tierset bonuses… but those getting “legacy effect inactive” was also something that happened within the last few xpacs… like around WoD/Legion.)
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But until Blizz actually deactivated those bonuses, did tier pieces suddenly become inactive at the start of the next expansion, no. They stayed with you until you broke the bonuses, which of course you did while questing. That is my biggest issue with the expansion wide power rental systems we have now, our characters suddenly forget how to use everything we gained during the expansion.
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This is a self-defeating idea. Why would you create a ‘borrowed’ (and let’s be honest the quotes need to go there) power when players don’t even need it?
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I think what they did between Classic and TBC, and TBC and Wrath was a good way to go about it.
The classis had transformation, dramatic in some cases, but the advancement in power was something that was kept, and expanded upon.
(Yes, I recognize the weakness in ending up being level 120 before squishing… but wasn’t removed with Borrowed Power either.)
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All Blizzard needs to do is commit to improving the systems they create. Covenants are fine in the broad sense because World of Warcraft was never balanced to begin with, PvE or otherwise.
The difference is that everyone can run simulations and are dictated by raw numbers, so any spec that performs .01% worse than the top three is horribly underpowered and gimped.
It would allow them to add things or enhance things without the risk of ability bloat that ultimately leads to ability pruning. It would allow the classes and specs to get new things and feel fresh without that risk.
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Borrowed power is mostly fine, though.
They can’t build on specs forever without removing anything.
Meh - all the “borrowed power” schtick is, is a re-working of the original talent trees, with extra steps.
Good lord I just had a brief glimpse of a world of warcraft where we STILL had to:
- consider artifact power
- get azerite gear
- work the netherlight crucible
- get relics
- get resistance gear for distinct fights
- figure out corruption so our own gear doesn’t kill us
- mind our essences
- do some visions to upgrade our cloak
- hope for legendaries to drop from literally anything
- what else?
With better gear. That’s not like what we have now. they use borrowed power to make class’s feel better. Instead of making classes feel smooth and fun from day one.
This^
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HEY! What’s with the gore imagery?! There are kids here.
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