True, i been playing my shaman. The thing is that im just looking into get back to my hunter like the last days.
I could have two more, had a disconnect last night in a Freehold +17 and a teammate had to leave for persona issues on a +16 Shrine. Both were looking good and easy to time.
I don’t know son, i play a BM Hunter which has a big on demand AOE with a strong offensive CD (Primal Instinct) that can be used A LOT OF TIMES in a dungeon run.
And i won’t i barely never pug, as i said for me it’s easy because the wierd times i pug i get added even when i play my SPriest
As i said i have no doubt Hunter has no issue at all, hell the reason why im switching it’s because while doing some 20+ with my Shaman i can see that going back to BM it’s gonna improve my changes to push.
Easier to deal 30k+ overrall in a dungeon as BM that Ele, you got a strong dispell, a hard CC in Frost Trap a Slow in Tar Trap, Binding Shot is incredible good too (tho i forget to use it xD), WAY better survivability and a INSANE HEAL with your spirit beast.
Just watch it, before the season ends im gonna suprass my shaman Mythic+ wise and proving to myself that Hunters have no issue at all.
Finding a tank without a group of their own is a difficult task, then meeting a criteria of aptitude and desire… not so easy this deep into the expansion. I agree though. I’m not sold on it’s me, I think there is a perception of hunters and it shows on rankings.
We finally got to the real issue. “it’s hard for me to get into groups because of how the community sees hunters”
It’s not even that hunters in general are undesirable, because it was pointed out that they are on par or above other DPS. It’s that your specific spec is undesirable.
I almost want to feel bad for you. The fact is though, if you cant get into any groups as MM you always have the option of building your own group.
I absolutely love affliction, but when I run my lock I generally play demo or sometimes destro because its better for the dungeon. I suppose I could always try your route though and just complain on the forums because warlock isn’t S tier for m+. Of course I also understand that everyone can’t finish 1st in a race and that there will be people on top, middle of the pack, and in last place.
Hunter is viable in m+ regardless of your opinion. Either conform to what the playerbase wants in regard to spec or build your own group. Either of these would be more productive than complaining here.
I’ll just throw in my theoretical 2 pence here, but it seems to me that the higher and higher you go in M+, more that is demanded of every one of those five party slots. That’s not my direct experience in M+, just what I find in a lot of games.
That being said, unless the MM is a snap with traps (AFAIK, it’s the only non-targeted CC in the game), I don’t think there’s much the spec can offer that cannot be easily replicated (or exceeded, even) by any other spec.
It has no utility and pales in comparison to many other classes on burst AOE. They took away our Tranq shot for the love of God.
I’ve said that for a while now but think if 1.9% of the 15+ keys have MM hunters in them, I’m no so sure it’s a “me” problem.
Thanks and I agree. Just bad place for the community IMO. A lot of people unsubbed or locked in a group of their own.
MM also feels a bit broken to me since the last patch. “I” feel off, my AOE is off sometimes 2-5k per run. I think I can fix the problem with a different chest piece. Outside of that I have to refer everyone back to raiderio scores. I mean, are you all of the same opinion that SV is “fine” too?
You’re on point. People are trying to cover for skips. Death runs, stealth, etc… Utility. I prob should at least drop enchanting to pick up engineering so I can brez… Can’t tell you how happy that makes me.
It seems like a lot of people are conflating “Hunter is fine” with “MM is fine.” This thread is about MM, not Hunters in general. It’s easy to say “Play BM for M+ and you will be fine” or, “Play SV for PvP and you will be fine.” But then, what is MM for?
MM is a broken spec. It does OK in raids on some bosses, not so well on others. It does great on some trash packs, unbelievably bad on others. But that’s just damage. It’s utility is piss poor, AND it’s damage is highly variable depending on the pull.
In PvP, unless you play as a wallflower, it is the stuff left over in the garbage truck after it dumps out all the solid stuff. It’s a kiting spec that can’t kite, a battlefield control spec that can’t control the battlefield, and a burst spec that can’t kill. Its the trash that even the rest of the trash doesn’t want.
Then learn to play the class not only the spec? I see warlocks switching from Destro or Affliction for raiding to Demonology for Mythic+. I see mages going from Arcane for Raid, Fire to PvP and Frost for Mythic+.
You can either adapt or wait for changes, i rather the first one because thats completely under my crontrol.
I know how to play the other specs, I don’t want to play the other specs. I would rather play a different class. MM is very distinct, and always has been. Its a playstyle that has been my favorite since WotLK. The archer has become a playstyle that is no longer a viable option in many areas of this game. That should be a crime since “Archer” is quintessential to the genre.
I do not come here to discuss MM because I can’t play the game, I have at least one of every class at 110 and 6 at 120. I can play whatever I want. I come here to discuss MM because I can’t play MM in PvP, and the mobile stealthy archer is my all time favorite way to play. I just want it to be a viable playstyle. Don’t we all?
I mean, I pay for a game a live service for people to balance a game so it’s enjoyable for everyone. I’ve had 12 120’s for quite some time, I stopped pushing most of them pre 8.1 from 380-390ish. There’s no reason things can’t be addressed before a patch. I guarantee if MM hunters were pulling 20k more then everyone else it would be fixed immediately.
Why? Take a outlaw rogue that will dwarf AOE on a hunter. It also costs the group nothing.
Why? When you can have somebody brez or ankh and raise up the group. Especially since feign doesn’t work on every mob or sometimes breaks.
MM doesn’t have a dispell.
Fleeting and really other classes have this. DESIRED utility, DH/WW have aoe stuns, def debuffs, brez, aoe stealth.
Again, let me know when you do. I’d like to hear your opinion then.
That’s not a good argument, especially since the OP and Masoschism have explicitly said that this is about MM, not hunters. I’ve been around long enough to watch the evolution of the entire class, and unlike everyone else, I think MM is headed in the right direction, but like everyone else, I think MM still doesn’t have enough, and if getting to the point that MM has “enough” means a shift in the direction of the spec, I’ll go with it.
As a specific example of MM’s shortcomings in M+, MM’s AOE damage is wholly dependent on Trick Shots, which allows us to hit an additional five targets after MS hits 3 targets. A bit limited because MS eats focus that should have been used by Aimed Shot, especially when we pop Trueshot, but we can deal with that by controlling the pulls…until you realize the Mythic 10+ dungeons in Season 2 get Reaping. Do you know how many mobs are going to definitely come at our group? A lot more than six, which means we can’t hit everything, and they all have to die because the next reaping wave is going to be even worse.
Take away the limit on Trick Shots and that would definitely be an improvement. I don’t know if other classes have a hard limit on targets during AOE, but the problem for MM is exacerbated because it’s always Multi into Aimed until the focus runs out.
Yes, of course life would be easier if we just went BM for Beast Cleave or SV for Explosives and Butchery, but some of us really want to see what we can do with our class outside of hole-punching raid bosses.
I agree with this. In fact it was the direction change it got in Beta that made me resub. It’s not the core of MM that is the problem. I am convinced that whoever designed the core had nothing to do with the talent changes and “add-ons” (like Precise Shots) that came later in Beta. The core made sense. All the rest of the stuff didn’t.
Its the stuff on top of that core that is the problem. It has counter-intuitive parts, broken parts, and insufficient parts, but the core is perfectly fine. That is why I say it is “a kiting spec that can’t kite”, etc. It IS the spec I want it to be, it just isn’t good at it.
This idea you have, that one spec should excel at everything is, imo at least, utterly stupid.
MM outperforms BM on almost every single raid encounter. Saying that MM should excel in M+ as well just because you don’t like BM? I have zero sympathy for you. Like Dunkhammer said, learn to play the class. Part of understanding the class is knowing which spec performs best in any given scenario. You don’t want to be the best because you don’t like MM? Thats completely fine, we’ve already established that MM is viable for m+. It’s not the best, but it is 100% viable. Claiming the spec is “broken”…well, I didn’t initially plan on laughing at you., but, oops.
You think our locks stay the same spec for all of our mythic clears? You think our hunters or rogues didn’t change spec based on the encounter during progression? You know what happens when one spec is best at everything? we end up with legion afflocks.
You just want the best of both worlds with a single spec. It’s a lazy, whiny way of thinking and I for one, am very happy that what you’re asking for will not happen.
When did I say that? When did I imply that? I said it should be viable. I am, and always have been perfectly content with being dead center of the pack. There is a huge, HUGE difference between being “excellent” and being viable.
MM is not viable in PvP. MM is the only archer spec in the game. I can not play an archer in PvP. This makes me sad, as it was my favorite thing to do for a decade of my life. I have every right to come here and complain about that, especially if I give specific feedback (which I have done hundreds of times now). That is the purpose of these boards (at least ostensibly). I am fulfilling the purpose of the boards by giving this feedback.
Why? Take a outlaw rogue that will dwarf AOE on a hunter. It also costs the group nothing.
Why? When you can have somebody brez or ankh and raise up the group. Especially since feign doesn’t work on every mob or sometimes breaks.
Fleeting and really other classes have this. DESIRED utility, DH/WW have aoe stuns, def debuffs, brez, aoe stealth.
Nice to finally start to get to the root of the issue. You’re just full of excuses. Literally, all you did there was complain that some other class could do something better or in a different way and because of that MM hunters are useless. I wish you luck in accepting and acclimating to the playstyle. In my experience, people with your type of attitude simply aren’t worth having a discussion with.
I was joking earlier when I said you were a mediocre player looking for OP hunter buffs…but from your attitude and responses it looks like I was dead on.
Took me 30 seconds to find this. It’s a good thing you didn’t make a broad, sweeping, factual statement that anyone could go and prove wrong.
If one person can do it, anyone can do it. Sure, MM has it’s issues, but what I think what you meant to say is that MM is not viable in PvP for YOU - ostensibly due to time spent posting rather than playing.
From my perspective the only utility we have is turtle shell, freezing trap and misdirect. Turtle shell is inferior to many other defensive. No one uses cc. Misdirect is largely worthless. Or damage is not the best so we have no reason to be desired.
Honestly if they added an affix that made people take reduced damage for each ally and cc mobs didn’t count. Or mobs that are cc in combat lose max hp or something that would bring a lot more classes in.
Other then that misdirect will never be viable without a community perception change. For it to be useful it needs to solve a problem. However If you don’t have a hunter both tanks and other dps would all complain. Yet shroud is “mandatory” and people feel cool they are skipping mobs.
They either need to give mm utility, or make cc in mythic plus viable.
Nice edited video of mostly 2s where a hunter is not being focused by melee. I’m not sure why you are showing that to me, but it was mildly entertaining, so thanks.
To each their own I suppose, but being someone who does data analysis pretty much every day of my life, I prefer data to anecdotes. Statistical data can be found here:
www.worldofwargraphs. com/pvp-stats/classes
and here:
www.arenamate. net/representation-charts
Both show MM has between 0.2% to 0.3% representation above 1800 in both 3s and RBGs and between 0.0% to 0.2% representation above 2200.
I’m going to call your skirmish anecdote not representative. Data suggests MM is not viable.
I mean… You’re on an alt. I would love to see your amazing hunter that has a 2400+ io, 2k+ 2’s, 3’s or rbg rating. At any time, I think you could marvel us all with how amazing you are and how our opinions are negated by your personal experience.
I applaud your effort. I lost hope for the game. They aren’t going to post on actual hunters with that kind of experience. They are only here to troll, its among the reasons why this game is dying and the forums isn’t even used for meaningful dialogue. You can even have 2.4+ exp in my experience and they still won’t listen.
Modern retail wow was designed to attract these types of people. They’ll berate you for a lack of skill in a game that’s been dumbed down to 3-4 button rotations. There’s nothing you can do to distinguish skill, and its been designed that way on purpose to make the content streamlined for the mass audience.
Fixing hunters isn’t on their agenda which is why I unsubbed. The naysayers on the forums like your sharkems are just here to nit pick and argue without suggesting any real solutions (if the devs even considered them, which they won’t). Its an exercise in futility. What state is the community in where people come to class forums to tell hunters their wrong to voice concerns about their own class. What a joke.