No M+ timer till 16

[Adilith-frostmourne]

forum mentality. The game is too hard for me so we should nerf it so I can complete it at my current dumb level. Rather than improve and get better at the game

[Mankeigh-stormrage (Mankeigh)]

@Nightspire-hyjal

So if M+ is one of the only things that matter in the game anymore

I don’t think that’s true though. PvP is still huge. As is raiding. Both of those got the same Great Vault treatment that M+ did.

There’s still pet battles. And mounts. And TW. Etc, etc.

There’s plenty of stuff to do in the game that’s designed for solo/casual play. It needs some tweaks sure, but it would be better to improve on the stuff designed for solo play than to try to turn the stuff designed for group play into solo play.

you can’t blame folks for wanting to be included,

I’m not saying Blizz can’t do more to improve things for people who want to run queued content. I’m just saying that the specific solutions of removing the timer from M+ and making it queuable isn’t going to work long term. Because that’s basically what heroic is, and if you aren’t satisifed with heroic now, you won’t be satisfied with a M+ that has been turned into heroic.

[Nightspire-hyjal]

@Mankeigh-stormrage

I don’t think that’s true though. PvP is still huge. As is raiding. Both of those got the same Great Vault treatment that M+ did.

PvP is pointless if you’re not geared and doing rated, and raiding has the same baggage as M+, where you’re screwed if you can’t find a fun inclusive group to play with. Those “three pillars” is all that seems to matter to the game and Blizz anymore.

@Mankeigh-stormrage

There’s plenty of stuff to do in the game that’s designed for solo/casual play. It needs some tweaks sure, but it would be better to improve on the stuff designed for solo play than to try to turn the stuff designed for group play into solo play.

Whenever we ask for improvements to those, we get laughed at, put down, and told to suck it up and do things like M+.

@Mankeigh-stormrage

I’m not saying Blizz can’t do more to improve things for people who want to run queued content. I’m just saying that the specific solutions of removing the timer from M+ and making it queuable isn’t going to work long term. Because that’s basically what heroic is, and if you aren’t satisifed with heroic now, you won’t be satisfied with a M+ that has been turned into heroic.

I can agree there, but again, see above.

[Sarama-firetree]

@Mankeigh-stormrage

you could also ask for LFR to be included in the Great Vault.

LFR is included in the great vault.

@Nightspire-hyjal

beyond that in this game currently, what is there in terms of meaningful progression content for people like me?

IMO meaningful progression content is just where you hit your personal ceiling. For me that’s +12/heroic raid/unrated BGs. (I stink at PvP) As long as I can get the gear to do that stuff, I can accept that I won’t be geared to the max, and that’s ok. At least with m+ you can ignore the timer and get good gear in your vault!

[quote=“Nightspire-hyjal, post:291, topic:1078050”]
Whenever we ask for improvements to those, we get laughed at, put down, and told to suck it up and do things like M+.[/quote]

That’s not Blizz though, that’s GD, and GD isn’t the people who can make the changes you want.

[Zuldazar-malganis]

NO

KSM was already made far easier this season; if you time half the dungeons at +15 and fail the other half you still get KSM.

P.S. I think you can even do some of those at 14’s but haven’t checked the math.

[Zuldazar-malganis]

@Pyri-shadowsong

this idea that you have to do the whole dungeon in a panicky rush with one eye on the timer and your finger hovering over the “leave group” button is nonsense.

What?! She made no mention (or implication) of panic or leaving.

[Nightspire-hyjal]

@Sarama-firetree

IMO meaningful progression content is just where you hit your personal ceiling. For me that’s +12/heroic raid/unrated BGs. (I stink at PvP) As long as I can get the gear to do that stuff, I can accept that I won’t be geared to the max, and that’s ok. At least with m+ you can ignore the timer and get good gear in your vault!

Funny thing is that this all boils down to what I really have fun in, random BGs. Something I’ve consistently enjoyed throughout every single expansion. Yet Shadowlands is telling me that if I’m not a gladiator champion, mythic raider or keystone master, that there’s no place for me here. Not even random BGs, unless I enjoy getting crushed over and over again with no hope of fighting back.

I don’t have a supportive guild or really any friends for that matter, and no one seems to care. Maybe something like M+ could be fun if I’m not being yelled at and insulted for every mistake I make. But because M+ stresses me out as much as it does, I wish I could play in a world where I could happily ignore that.

@Sarama-firetree

That’s not Blizz though, that’s GD, and GD isn’t the people who can make the changes you want.

Posting on GD is in some sense suggesting ideas to Blizzard.

[Sarama-firetree]

@Nightspire-hyjal

Not even random BGs, unless I enjoy getting crushed over and over again with no hope of fighting back.

Yeah unrated gearing and the ilevel difference stinks, but that’s not really an M+ problem.

@Nightspire-hyjal

Posting on GD is in some sense suggesting ideas to Blizzard.

And when has a blue post ever laughed at anyone for their suggestions?

[Nightspire-hyjal]

@Sarama-firetree

Yeah unrated gearing and the ilevel difference stinks, but that’s not really an M+ problem.

It kind of is, because to do well in BGs you have to do high key M+, or other arguably more challenging things like high rated PvP or mythic raiding. Don’t do any of those, can’t get any gear, and the only place in the game for someone like me is being crushed beneath the heels of everyone else.

[Sarama-firetree]

@Nightspire-hyjal

because to do well in BGs you have to do high key M+, or other arguably more challenging things like high rated PvP or mythic raiding.

That’s an issue with Blizz not having ilevel brackets. If Blizz fixed their matchmaking you’d never need to do anything but unrated BGs. Has nothing to do with gear in rated pvp, m+, or mythic raid.

[Nightspire-hyjal]

@Sarama-firetree

That’s an issue with Blizz not having ilevel brackets. If Blizz fixed their matchmaking you’d never need to do anything but unrated BGs. Has nothing to do with gear in rated pvp, m+, or mythic raid.

Ilvl brackets would be the ideal solution, definitely. I could play in a world where I could totally ignore the higher end stuff if they were a thing. But until then, my only choices would be to do that stuff, get crushed repeatedly, or lock myself out of PvP forever.

[Zuldazar-malganis]

@Nightspire-hyjal

Maybe something like M+ could be fun if I’m not being yelled at and insulted for every mistake I make. But because M+ stresses me out as much as it does

@Nightspire-hyjal

It kind of is, because to do well in BGs you have to do high key M+, or other arguably more challenging things like high rated PvP or mythic raiding. Don’t do any of those, can’t get any gear, and the only place in the game for someone like me is being crushed beneath the heels of everyone else.

PvP is far more stressful and unforgiving than M15’s, if you can’t handle that level of PvE content you won’t be able to manage PvP players (both allies and enemies).

[Nightspire-hyjal]

@Zuldazar-malganis

PvP is far more stressful and unforgiving than M15’s, if you can’t handle that level of PvE content you won’t be able to manage PvP players (both allies and enemies).

I’ve never had a problem with random BGs. Buttheads were easily ignored and no one could gatekeep me. I also used to be able to acquire decent gear in them on my own. Would love to have that back.

[Zuldazar-malganis]

Then keep playing. MMR not visible but it’s there; once you lose enough matches you’ll be put against players of similar ilvl/skill.

[Nightspire-hyjal]

I don’t do arena though, and I’m not sure random BGs have that same MMR treatment. I’ve had times where I’d lose literally 20+ games in a row and they never got easier.

[Ithost-illidan]

Hey there adventurer! I am Ithost, Keystone Hero of the Shadowlands. For a reasonable price YOU TOO can be a Keystone Hero! My team and I will take you on a grand adventure, timing all mythic+ keys at level 20! We will get your mount and all portals, and you don’t even have to help us! I mean what is slow and easier than that?! Please feel free to mail me in game!

Thanks adventurer!

Oh and gold only OBVIOUSLY

[Nightspire-hyjal]

Don’t wanna just be my friend and run the keys with me for fun?

[Ithost-illidan]

I run a lot of random PUGs, whether it’s arena, RBG, M+, or raid. Most of the time I do not charge anything at all and just run for mogs and out of boredom.

[Nightspire-hyjal]

That’s cool!

At this point, I dunno what I’m going to do. I’m seriously considering just staying as a Chromie Time player, twinking out with all the best stuff I can (legion leggos and the like) and just feeling powerful in older content.

[Sarama-firetree]

@Nightspire-hyjal

But until then, my only choices would be to do that stuff, get crushed repeatedly, or lock myself out of PvP forever.

It seems like it’d make more sense for you to ask for the changes you want to random BGs instead of changes to the system you don’t even like at all. Maybe the bgers of the world could get some traction without having to fight against the M+ crowd