No Justice for the Kaldorei (9.1 Spoilers)

Lore Story Forum
1048

All I see is a group of players that got victimized want their empowering moment.

No one seems to acknowledge the otherside’s issues.
I mean I have tried to be productive in the Horde rebuild thread with zero malicious intent. It just leads nowhere. Besides my personal problems with Baal I did try. I really did to see if the community can reach some sort of compromise where we discuss things productively.

It is simply impossible.
Now after having said this I prepare myself for ridicule and trolling. Its just the nature of this forum and community.

Everyone has a secret agenda and troll each other.

1049

We do, but I feel like it have to be something occasionally repeated because some people to try to bring it into a “no u!” chatting.

I guess there is no hype in it. Like, it’s so poetic, that the devs talk about morality, or what is “right”. But they in practice use suffering as a marketing tool, destroy what people liked, and then go “oh, look! A random Jailer flying!!1”

They ruined Darkshire with no set up or follow up, and just dropped one of most liked (I think) alliance locations, during Legion. And then be like “eh… fixing things can wait. Sure, it could contribute to the story of Anduin not bothering to help a part of his people while feral undead / worgens and other suff kills them, but it won’t because we like Anduin, so whatever, let’s leave the place to rot”.

And the other things they bash for marketing and profit, and then run away instead of fixing and acknowledging what and why people liked. Very, very high moral position IMO.

As well as ruined more of what made W3 like to begin with IMO.

I mean, at least people around are fun to chat with, so that is worth the subscription for now, right? :rofl:

Yup. The devs waiting till they think it’s convenient to continue a certain story line does feel rather… meh. Baine included.

I went into Shadowlands with the intention to give the current narrative team a chance, since Afrasiabi is not the lead anymore. We’ll see if this is any good or bad (so far it seems to be as bad).

gl hf

1050

What foreshadowing is this, and what do you think was the original plan?

1051

But they want their empowering moment at the cost of others, associating their victimization to the player on the other side of the screen.

I’ve been called a reprehensible person IRL with hope that I lose my job and suffer because I made a zug meme about Teldrassil, which ignored all my previous serious opinions and conversations with the individual which involved my actual thoughts.

By constantly making it us vs them, the community can’t get together.

Like I absolutely can’t agree with almost anything Droite says but they’re lumped into the same camp as me just because our posting avatars have a red background. This despite the fact that my actual gameplay main is a Night Elf, and I’m in the process of leveling more.

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1053

Having the benefit of hindsight, this was wrong of me to do, and I would like to apologize for it.

I can understand if you don’t accept it, but I do want to make that clear.

1054

Plenty of references strewn across the books, the novella and the game about Sylvanas working against a great darkness beyond the veil of life/death.

It was constantly referenced up until 8.1, and the assumption with hindsight actually fills a lot of holes left from prior to 8.1 such as why Sira and Delaryn would team up with their killer.

For example, the Dark Ranger that Alliance kills in 8.0 mentions seeing the darkness as she dies and asks if this is the darkness Sylvanas wanted to save them from.

Sylvanas even mentions wanting Valkyr to save her people.

Edit: I believe the dark ranger quest is called To Kill A Dark Ranger or something. It’s the 8.0 alliance war campaign

1055

In the Horde rebuild thread I tried multiple ideas and solutions of how and what could happen to but no idea is acceptable no matter what it is.

Horde fans refuse to cede any ground and Alliance fans refuse to see any ground was already ceded.

Horde problems can be resolved mostly internally and neutral content. Alliance is like half related their relationship with the Horde.
I mean we can have Teldrassil reborn and forest restored. Doesn’t change the fact that next time there is Horde in narrative updated Hyjal some people would say “uh why are the NEs letting them back in here after all they did?”

Maybe I am wrong but it seems Alliance fans want what happened validated while Horde fans want it to go away so they mock and belittle or just say “you got enough drop it” which just escalates matters.

Imagine its a fist fight.
Alliance got sucker punched and when they tried to punch back it was a glancing blow. All it did it made the Horde trip over itself which made them realize hitting is wrong.

Now alliance is standing there with fists clenched and a bleeding throbbing nose wondering what to do next.

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1056

Honestly, I would wager THEY have no interest in it. We’re well over a decade now of Blizz doing the bare minimum in terms of actually building the Horde as a Faction; in favor of just using it as a convenient plot-device. They’ll wield the WC3 image of the faction to save it from their “Old Horde” fun, but the moment they drop that hammer they skip town with barely a passing glance. Its gotten to the point where I can’t help but think that Blizz just sees the WC3 vision of the Faction as a burden to write around when not villain batting it; as they already have their heroic faction. Its just a waist of resources to have two.

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1057

I’ve noticed this quite a bit in your argumentation. That you feel that the Horde is a plot device for Alliance development.

I’d like to interrogate that some more, because I don’t get that impression from BFA, although I come from a biased perspective myself. From my perspective, the Night Elves were largely demolished and discarded for the benefit of Saurfang’s story, and the eleventh attempt for the Horde to excise its demons (as aborted as that storyline was). I certainly don’t feel like any of it was for my benefit, especially now that Tyrande’s arc has revealed itself to evidently be an attempt to wind down the Teldrassil plot in a way that precludes long-lasting consequences other than those suffered by the race that I enjoy.

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  1. People can change if they want to, if people don’t think they need to change, they will not. Someone complaining on a forum they don’t read about how the race they make the most content around needs more content definately wont, especially with how some players insult and belittle them, or send them literal death threats over a fictional story
  2. The current managers have repeatably proven to not be interested in fixing the story, and furthermore even if they hired new ones, that doesn’t change the fact said story will be rushed. Management also has no reason to listen to you since your still spending money to post about how you hate the story, which still benefits them. Not enough people care about the story either for them to receive mass quits in the playerbase
  3. Your are demanding immediate resolution, which means there is no time for Churn Kyalin. I flat out said you should wait until the writers improve or change before asking for them to fix your story.
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But that’s literally the epilogue to BfA.

The Alliance are aware the Horde didn’t change, it’s likely the Horde will try something again and the Horde aren’t forgiven for their crimes but peace is worth trying.

The Horde are partying with their new council as if they’ve been forgiven but none of their critical issues have been addressed, the Horde is still fractured and Shadows Rising shows they’re just as willing to mobilize to fight Alliance as before.

It’s an on-going narrative, one of the few which continued into a follow-up expansion rather than wrapping it all up. Shadowlands has the biggest issue of curveballing us to some random cosmic plot while things at home aren’t addressed.

I’ll pay 5 dogecoin that the Alliance being on edge still will play a part in subsequent Azeroth-based storytelling and that the Night Elf issue with the Horde won’t be as dropped as the Worgen issue with the Forsaken from Cata > MOP ending.

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1 dovetails with 2 - the playerbase does continue to shrink and Blizzard is relying increasingly on in-game purchases. Support is not an on/off switch, there are levels to it, and the decreasing base of people on the whole is not a sign that things can continue as is.
RE: 3: I’ve been waiting for eleven years. How long would you prefer that I wait? Twelve? Fifteen? Twenty? Give me a number.

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To be honest, I have a feeling that there is something in general, not just the horde, that for some reason makes the devs either dislike the origins of the game, or to go with “but we can do it better!!” approach, only to drop it halfway through, and hope that there is enough players who will support “the story is not over” excuse (while ignoring that waiting in WoW is not free, and without a provided deadline is a rather empty thing to suggest IMO).

I do not know why, but I have such feeling. Something about success of W3 and early WoW seems to make some people actively undermine it, or replace if possible.

It’s sometimes almost disappointing to look at how the alliance is treated too.

This whole “but the horde can become something new” is just…

I guess at some point I should consider replacing / adding to the usual ending of my posts aka wish of good luck, by Asmongold’s “solve the problems that the players do not have with the solutions that the players do not want”.

gl hf

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1062

Point is, blizz shouldn’t put or write about things like the genocide of a playable race in the game if

  1. They can’t handle nor do they care about the backlash from doing so and

  2. Can’t be bothered to write a solid conclusion to it.

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1063

You misunderstand. I have NEVER said it was FOR Alliance development.

We are just in fact a Plot-Device. In the case of both the Garrosh and Slylvie period, its Blizz using the Horde as a very forced proactive force to merely settup future content and villains. With little regards to the “after” or consequences of that. Its staggeringly apparent in BfA as well, because they not only had these absurdly expensive (but ultimately valueless) lip service cinematics prepped (that show they know what the Horde is supposed to represent), but also couldn’t even be bothered to think of Means or Motive for the Horde to do ANYTHING it did in BfA. And only really forced opportunity. Its also why Teld was nearly entirely written out of the story for the Horde after the WoT. It really didn’t exist outside Saurfang.

The Horde had to do A, because SLs required A to happen in some way. It doesn’t matter if it makes sense for the Horde to do A, or even have the ability to. Its why the best possible analogy for BfA is “The Horde was the vehicle for the story. The Alliance the helpless passengers. But the driver was Sylvanas”. Which means neither the Red Team OR the Blue Team had any control (or even importance) in what was sold as a Faction Conflict story lol! Just Sylvanas and what she needed to do to settup our current expac.

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1064

Gotcha. Thank you for clarifying.

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1065

They love to use the excuse that this is an MMO and its hard to write for one.

No they just suck at their job and probably their budget is $4 and a mcdonalds happy meal.

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1066

The fact it’s constantly addressed within the game and has been brought in every patch from 8.0 in one way, shape or form shows they are handling it and do care.

It hasn’t concluded yet. We’re still in the middle of the narrative.

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1067

Might cost us a raid tier after all. Heaven forbid :wolf:

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