And do you propose going on a war to try and destroy Ogrimmar/Thunderbluff/Bildgewater Harbor? Even assuming that were possibly unless you are willing to go on a genocidal crusade of your own you probably will just end up with an Iraq style quagmire because I doubt the Horde will simply surrender and will likely take to gurrella tactics(if not outright join one of the endless number of bad guys trying to destoy the world).
That is quite possible, but wouldnât that prove the point that they are actually trying to disprove, that they are monsters?
My argument is actually not, to put it bluntly, that the night elves will wipe out the Horde. Iâm playing out a what if, a thought game here.
My point is rather that I refuse to acknowledge that the whole Tyrande story had the best possible outcome, no it didnât, on the contrary it was a bad story, and we do know (told, not showed)that the Night Warrior is this superpower where nothing and no one can really stop it, but we are only shown the negative sides this time, nothing is achieved.
Itâs anticlimatic from beginning to end.
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Notably, FDR did not propose exterminating everyone in the axis as a fair retaliation.
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Iâd say that would prove that desperate people will use desperate measures to survive. And considering the Alliance uses demon hunters, death knights and warlocks and have used Old God empower weapons(if your an Alliance shadow priest) I am not 100% sure I would totally fault them for it.
And my point is we are not done with the story. And that any other paths might just have ended up with a Tyrande on the raid chopping block.
All of this use the Horde aswell, its nothing different between the faction, and the alliance was whitewhashed in this term even, i mean, before wow Warlocks were forbidden and hunted, Deathknights were killed on sight, demon hunters were outcast under their own people and old gods were a myth and every shadowpriest like was hunted aswell.
To use this gameplaydriven Narrative to make a point is a weak try.
The story will not end satisfactorily in any way, too much time has passed, too much damage has been done. They are losing people faster and faster and ruining more and more credits they had in the first place
He was until late 45 a supporter of the morgentauplan, a plan that would have killed in the process millions. The only reason he stood against it, was the was the ever more powerful Soviet Union and Stallinâs behavior, which needed a European bulwark which would have served in an emergency as a battlefield for this war, Germany, to this day plans are lying around in the Pentagon, which describes Germany as sacrificable should a nuclear war begin, there are also to this day missiles aligned. The population was classified as expendable, nothing has changed until today. (In Rusia aswell, if ever a third ww happened, germany will no longer exist, it will be one of the greatest battlefronts in all of europe)
He didnât kill them, but he signed a death warrant in a European war long ago. By classifying the population of the country Germany as absolutely expendable in a 3rd world war case.
Then check out the plans in the event of a nuclear war, where the battlefield will be fought in Europe.
âWhile the Morgenthau Plan had some influence on Allied planning for the occupation of Germany by July 10, 1947 (adoption of JCS 1779), it was not adoptedâ
Gareau, Frederick H
Sorry, but until 1947âŚit was a equal âplanâ, usa changed their plans because the UDDSR grow in power.
I just want to show you that real history and the cruelty of it beats any fantasy by far.
By the way, you can read about the nuclear wars for a long time, has been published since 2010. Is also nothing new or what unknown.
In other words: Just because A) doesnât do it, doesnât mean B) will not either.
There are many things that happened after the Second World War, in Germany, in Europe, which objectively seen from our morality had absolutely violated any morality, yet it was never really upset about it, because the winner writes the story.
So do you really think, in a what if case, the night elves would describe themselves as evil because the waged war against the enemy that led them to the brink of a cultural collapse as a civilization (thatâs Kyalinâs argument)?
And would be descriped as âŚevil from the story?
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Iâm done with this course of discussion and I let you in your fantasy world where Germany is not the dominant power in Europe to this very day.
We are not talking about today, we are talking about a time right after a war, or even during a war, where resentments, hurt feelings, personal losses and hatred are as common as breathing.
The night elves are coming out of a war now where any hatred for the Horde is justified, any hatred, that is Kyalinâs argument from the beginning, that this hatred will only swell if nothing is done.
And the community - though often there are exaggerating elements - thinks that NOTHING can be done? I think it differently, if escalation was the real logical way out, why not let it escalate?
We see it here in the forum, for 3 years it is escalated here, why should it be different ingame? Everyone here is deeply involved in the feelings of their favorites, are built âcloser to the waterâ, that is, react very emotionally, it is actually noticeable to see that many also identify with the favs or the races.
As the reaction here is, it should actually then also be colorfully represented by the peoples ingame.
Because this thread is currently fuelled by a rumor, and pushed heavily by people who somehow think the faction war is some life or death concern rather than the dumbest, most hackneyed, most forced nonsense the writers keep coming up with so the game keeps being catered to the pvp crowdâŚ
tl;dr but frankly I donât care about there being a winner either way, the faction war should have died after mists, the factions overstayed their welcome in Wrath ffs, the authors should absolutely have the courage to own up to their stupidity
It was never going to be satisfactorily as long as the game was mostly written to justify moronic team jersey nonsense because you canât just go around and delete an entire faction to satisfy people who decide that their bloodthirst is some kind of political stand
(lmao it edited instead of posting as a response, I hate this forum software)
But these kinds of threads arise worldwide, for Horde, for Night Elves, everywhere.
BFA broke something and they canât get that back, they really want revenge, thatâs something I didnât notice after Theramore, there wasnât such a big desire there, probably because they didnât count Jaina as an alliance 100% until Cata so, this desire of revenge is not only with night elves by now, but with many players.
Blizz has created something that will escalate, then let it escalate until really every race is down and the war is no longer possible, in all cruelty, in all epicness, people want war, any argument that is brought is actually mostly just some justification behind their true intentions if you think carefully.
Itâs about âHe has more than I do, I want something taken away from himâ, about the hammers that bad storywriting only affects X, disappointed power fantasy and much more.
You can notice that especially in one thing, in the discussions about Elune, have you noticed that? Thatâs where you often notice how concerned everyone is about power fantasy, even if they donât admit it, or donât admit it to themselves, thatâs what itâs all about somewhere. They don´t want to be loosers, understandable, they don´t want to be wrong, understandable, thats all understandable. The âonly real true godâ thing was for many player a red line, because it make their things wrong. Now this most likely from the table, they can think their stuff is âreal too, like the elune stuff tooâ, all of this is understandable. But in the end, no one should lie to themselfe, is about powerfantasy and not only investment.
in other words, these discussions are all just sideshows, the point is, the game doesnât do it satisfactorily, not really, in BFA if it had done it ârightâ it would have taken everything away from everyone and instead of Shadowlands we would now be in âRebuild Azerothâ because no capital would have existed, no place would have been left, everything would have been destroyed and just about every race would be on the brink of total cultural collapse.
If everyone really loses, everythingâŚthere is no winner.
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No one was ever or is ever going to have the kind of victory the people whining in this thread expect because itâs a multiplayer game where all races have to stay playable, there is no way this will ever end satisfactorily for everyone, and the writers and devs not understanding that doesnât mean it will ever change just because you keep pissing and moaning about it.
Bad faction war writing remains bad faction war writing whether it gives you perceived grievances or not. The devs should have understood that already with Wrath, Cata and Mists, BfA was just the continued proof that theyâre not smart enough to.
Just like Jaina having the empowered staff of Antonidas with the Thunder Kingâs power.
Neither are gonna do a damn thing with their said powers.
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What? You liked him literally turning the entire race into nothing but Greed Filled lemmings meant to die for his one-note nonsense? Or how he was sort of designed to make sure no other Bilgewater reps were developed? Or how if you wanted ANY story where Gobs showed the slightest bit of intelligence, you had to look towards the neutral Steamwheedle factions? I get that most people see Gobs as JUST a joke-race, but câmon? Really?
And as a note, I do love Wix. I just hated him as Trade Prince. I am very glad he is still alive and well; would be super happy to see him become Trade Prince of the Venture Co, but I am also glad heâs not the PC racial leader anymore. Now he can do him, and reprise his role as the team rocket baddy he is.
Teldrassil is complicated.
It was heavily corrupted by Old God influence because it was never cleansed by the Aspects until only after the events of Stormrage and even then it seemed like a bandaid more than a real fix.
If the dreadlord infiltration text is anything to go by it seems like Life is the hardest cosmic force to infiltrate and the epilogue of Arthas Rise of the LK named Malfurian as the Jailer/LKâs biggest enemy as he is the protector of Life.
Thatâs the only explanation on why Sylvanas was trying to kill Malfurian in the first place. In Elegy, Elune protected Malfurian over the Night Elves. Iâm sure thereâs a conflict between Elune and the Jailer we are just not aware of just yet in itâs whole scale.
Tyrande as the Night Warrior was meant to fight the Jailer, not just Sylvanas. I expect a Malfurian and Tyrande big team up moment to beat Death further down the line in this expansion.
The Epilogue for Arthas:Rise of the Lich King just has Arthas waking up from his 10+ yr dream state, and has Jaina and Sylvanas feeling it. It doesnât even mention Malfurion, not sure where you got that from 
It does mention Malfurian. When Nerâzul is showing him glimpses of the future you see a blurred vision of Malfurian during the War of Thorns.
Arthas never fought Malfurian, most of those visions Arthas saw didnât actually come true for him but if you expand the scope to include things that happens after Arthasâs fall it makes more sense if the visions nerâzul saw encompasses the War of Thorns.
I know, itâs pure fan speculation. They did not have BfA in mind when Christie wrote Arthas RoLK but as a sort of lore splint to make the Jailer retcon makes sense, it could make sense.
The void considers Elune âthe greatest enemyâ Iâm sure that will come back down the road when we face Xalâatath again. This is not the last of the Night Warrior. Tyrande as the Night Warrior will be around for a while I imagine, just not in this current destructive state.
While true, it doesnât name him the LKs enemy. Nerâzhul was just showing him what was happening or happened around the world after they both merged together. And the glimpse of Malfurion was during the War of the Ancients. War of Thorns was during BfA
I shouldâve been clearer on that, sorry
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I mean? Wut? Jaina has been nothing but an absurd powerhouse since she dealt with all that Thunder King nonsense. The problem isnât that sheâs not obscenely powerful (and Tyrande would be if sheâs getting the same treatment), its that they were already so powerful before their power up ⌠that portraying that is problematic. Especially in a Faction Conflict expansion, where the weaker faction (for many reasons, but especially their reps) is constantly forced to play the aggressor and villain without motives to do so. So Blizz has to hit these Ally Demigods with the stupid and nerf sticks, otherwise they just wouldnât have their already forced story.
EDIT: Truly, on some very basic conceptual levels the Alliance and Horde arenât even operating in the same genre of Fantasy anymore. The Alliance is WAY more High Magic setting atm than the Horde is.
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