You get like 6 per week actually.
They give echoes of azeroth (+2.) Maybe 7, given WQ rng.
As delves intended audience, my average is 2 to 5 keys a week. Im casual, so ill take your word for it here and use your numbers for this next point
7 pieces of loot a week is a good amout, though all capped at 603 with the exception of vaults and maps. Vault, everyinengets, so thats irrelevant. Ive only ever gotten two maps, so thats not enough data to know how common they are, so.lets just call that once a month.
Lets compare that to nlrmal dungeons, which is the gearing that m plus should really be following. Thats 1 to 3 drops per dungeon. Usually around 2 drops per dungeon. You arent weekly capped like with delves, you can spam dungeons over and over and over again.
Now lets compare to raids. Id aay realistically you have a chance of four items per raid, but accounting for other players and bad rng 1 to 3 upgrades is more likely.
With normal/heroic/timewalking as the baseline, its clear to me that rather than delves being overtuned with quantity, raids and m plus are undertuned severely.
Also, i appreciate your courtesy here. Apologies if i got a bit defensive–ive finally fallen in love with the game again after years and delves are a huge part of that, and im not used to good faith arguments and discussions on the forums
Delves existing as content is good.
It’s the impact on the rest of the game that is debatable.
Gear is best obtainable from content you want to do, so raids should drop more loot because m+ is seen as mandatory for CE raiding.
It’s not like Blizzard hasn’t discarded the next big thing before. (Island Expeditions, Warfronts.)
1 Like
I agree. Buff drop rates, not quality, on raids and m plus.
Let delves be as they are, the slow and steady pillar. M plus is the pushing keys to get tons of chances for upgrades, and raids are the monty haul where your reward for putting up with 20 other people is more loot than you can carry
Least, thats how id do it
1 Like
M+ gear should only work in a m+ 2 levels below the key you got it in.
Has nothing to do with M+, just that delves are terrible content that are only a net negative for the game. That’s it.
Alternate realities are weird.
3 Likes
Delves got me to resub, and I’m sure many others. That’s a net positive for sales $$. You know, … the thing that matters.
4 Likes
4 Likes
Don’t really think so. Any supposed negative that delves has cause to other parts in the game is largely a player behavior issue rather than something systematic. And they quite literally filled a dearth of content for those who aren’t a big fan of group content in this game.
3 Likes
Yes, and it’s still an option for players if that’s what they want to do.
But that’s distinct from having systems designed to providing zero benefit for large swaths of the community for playing any way except raid logging. Players absolutely could go explore the world and grind reps and run dungeons in WoD, even those who primarily cared about raiding. But there was literally no benefit for doing so compared to logging into your garrison once a day and collecting everything you’d need for raid for the week.
The benefit is playing the actual game. Many people get confused and start thinking games are productive. They are not. Games are fun (which is subjective) ways to waste time. So relax and enjoy.
1 Like
Like I said, “raid” logging should be an option for players who want it (I put raid in quote because it can apply to other activities as well). But as an MMO, there is some element of encouraging players to engage with the world that is good. And when the systems allow players to not engage with the world at all yet still participate in the highest levels of an activity, that contributes to the world feeling less full.
There should be a benefit for engaging with the world; that benefit may not be the difference between success and failure, but it shouldn’t feel like the only way the game offers to improve your experience with activity X which is heavily timegated is to participate in activity X. Every alternative activity doesn’t have to benefit activity X, but it shouldn’t be the case that no alternative activity benefits activity X.
What activity has no interconnectivity in wow? Honest question. Everything at least somewhat connects. PVP is the closest to separate, but you can still only play PVE and do ok in BG’s. M+ is just dungeons with more difficulty, Raiding is connected to story and dungeons. I honestly don’t see what is being isolated?
The more posts I read on this damned thread, the more I see mindless hatred being tossed at M+.
What is actually the problem with it? Why are people virtue signaling that more and more people should hate it?
Most importantly, I thought using names in titles is against the CoC. But y’know, I guess favoritism needs to be shown somehow.
1 Like
Squishes solve code performance issues, it does nothing for the game players per say.
I think before people felt compelled to do M+, and now they do not have to so they are venting, but combined with M+ players saying Delves should be whatever and now you have an explosive keg on the forums.
5 Likes
I don’t care if people like or dislike M+. I will voice my opinion against anyone that says delve gear needs to be nerfed. The only people that say that are bitter M+ players.
9 Likes
Please dont screw it up. I will never do M+. I love delves. It is great to solo or do with friends. I agree to reward T9-T11 delves.
2 Likes
This poses a problem of itself. If you really stood by this, you wouldn’t be in this thread in the first place.
But you jumped gun because the OP stated there is no purpose to pursue anything below a Mythic 7, entailing either mythic loot needs to be buffed, or delve gear needs to be nerfed.
Me personally, I’m a fan of either of them. And that’s why so much hate is being spread. Unnecessarily.
Game balance is vital for ANY game. Give players a stick to fight, they’ll be grinding for days. Give players OP gear, they’ll be thinking they’re a demigod. Only to find out they’re actually not.
I do stand by it and I stand by everything I’ve said in this topic.
One hero piece a week is hardly “OP gear”.
6 Likes